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hazelnut

October 1809 Update for Windows 10

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I think the real problem was they knew months ago that it was deleting files, but somehow never fixed that and released it anyways. Can't think of a better mishap for them to tarnish Windows beyond what it already is and cause some people migrate over to Linux or MAC.

I can just imagine a MAC TV commercial with the slogan: Your files are safe!

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cause some people migrate over to Linux or MAC

Have you seen what's going on with Linux recently?

 

BTW. Win10 1809 installed normally on my laptop (through Check for Updates) and is working fine in everyday use.

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"It appears the bug that caused file deletion was related to Windows 10 users who had enabled Known Folder Redirection to redirect folders like desktop, documents, pictures, and screenshots from the default location."

The Verge: Microsoft begins re-releasing Windows 10 October update after fixing file deletion bug.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/9/17957506/microsoft-windows-10-october-2018-update-data-deletion-fix

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8 hours ago, hazelnut said:

For some reason the Verge site doesn't like me :(

Look at other YouTuber's reaction to The Verge's YouTube video on how to build a $2000 PC, and be glad that site doesn't load for you.;)

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Maybe they should've waited at least 30 days after that first incident, and scoured through it looking for more bugs before making it available again. If it's offered on my system I'm going to wait a good while before allowing it to install.

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Remember that 1809 was not pushed out to users 'Automatically', - you had to go and get it either by manually 'Checking for Updates', using the Apdate Assistant, or downloading media and installing yourself.

It was pulled before it was sent to users automatically, and is still on hold - the 'new' version is only available to Windows Insiders.

TBH the missing files problems only affected those who had set Known Folder Redirects.
Not something the average home user would even know how to do, and of course the average home user would have waited for the Automatic Update rather than doing it manually as an early adopter.

I'm not sure about the HP problem, but again anyone seeing this must be an early adopter who downloaded/installed 1809 manually.

Being an early adopter of anything always comes with the risk of possible problems.

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The 1809 update was and still is on the Microsoft website.

All anyone needed to do was to download Media Creator 1809.

Upon execution you could :

1 - UPDATE THIS PC

2 - CREATE MEDIA TO UPDATE ANY WINDOWS 10 COMPUTER EITHER ON DVD OR USB

3 - CREATE ISO FOR LATER USE

 

I chose #3, saving the ISO on my D: drive. Copied the ISO to a USB drive. Performed my own backup and SYSTEM RESTORE POINT. Mounted the ISO and ran the update.

My computer updated without any problems, what so ever, which is a FIRST for WINDOWS 10 PRO X64 !!!

It only took me 1 hour to update which I feel was a little long in the tooth....

 

Pete...

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11 hours ago, MENINBLK said:

The 1809 update was and still is on the Microsoft website.

Not on the standard user website it isn't.

v1809 was there for a few days but it was pulled and it is v1803, the April 2018 Update, that is currently available on the Update Assistant/Media Creation page.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10

There is a 'new' version of 1809 available to Windows Insiders only, but that's not yet on general release.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windowsinsiderpreviewadvanced

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I wonder just how many users (not insiders) actually have 1809 Release to Market version?
I do and haven't had any problems with it. (Currently build 17763.55)

I can't find any statistics for the number of 1809 RTM updates/downloads that were made.

Remember 1809 RTM was only available if you manually used 'Check for Updates', used Update Assistant, or downloaded media - (ie. it wasn't released as an Automatic Update).
And it was only available for 3 days.

 

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I've so far installed it on 9 desktops and 5 laptops, over half of those had SSDs so they had default folder redirection in use and I've had no issues with the process.

have also done two domain connected PC's and all went smoothly.

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13 hours ago, nukecad said:

Remember 1809 RTM was only available if you manually used 'Check for Updates', used Update Assistant, or downloaded media - (ie. it wasn't released as an Automatic Update).

If someone manually uses Check for updates in Updates & Security it really makes no sense to offer it in my opinion, and why isn't it just fetching normal Automatic Updates like security patches, Windows Defender updates, etc., that a user can manually invoke at a given time because they have the time.

I don't really understand why it isn't one of those things where it will only get offered via an Automatic Update regardless if something manually clicks Check for updates. Maybe they should seriously re-think how Check for updates works!

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21 hours ago, nukecad said:

I wonder just how many users (not insiders) actually have 1809 Release to Market version?
I do and haven't had any problems with it. (Currently build 17763.55)

I can't find any statistics for the number of 1809 RTM updates/downloads that were made.

Remember 1809 RTM was only available if you manually used 'Check for Updates', used Update Assistant, or downloaded media - (ie. it wasn't released as an Automatic Update).
And it was only available for 3 days.

 

I'm on the same build you are and have not had any issues.  The only glitches -- the timestamp for Windows Defender definitions is off by several hours on the user interface (but not on Windows Update) and CCleaner's inability to clean everything that's checked (stems from 1809 and I reported that in the 'bug' section.  Piriform is working on a fix).

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20 hours ago, mta said:

I've so far installed it on 9 desktops and 5 laptops, over half of those had SSDs so they had default folder redirection in use and I've had no issues with the process.

have also done two domain connected PC's and all went smoothly.

That's interesting as it's supposedly the redirects that caused the deleted file problem.

Of course it was only stuff left in the old 'before redirect' locations that got wiped.

Presumably with the SSDs you hadn't left anything in those old locations.

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9 hours ago, Andavari said:

I don't really understand why it isn't one of those things where it will only get offered via an Automatic Update regardless if something manually clicks Check for updates. Maybe they should seriously re-think how Check for updates works!

It's down to user choice.

Some will want every update as soon as they can get it by downloading from MS.

Some will use Check for Updates to get them a little bit after that.

Most home users will just wait until Automatic Updates does it for them.

Some will block updates altogether.

Your choice.

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I made the ISO from the media creation tool the day after they released 1809 so that image didn't have the redirect fix yet.

all my PCs with SSDs get the redirection done to take the user folders away from the SSD so they were either empty or I didn't care what was in then anyway.

so as MS stated, perhaps the bug didn't effect all redirects/all installs, or I was just lucky or I was effected but didn't know as the folders were just place holders to me.

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21 minutes ago, mta said:

 so they were either empty or I didn't care what was in then anyway.

It's only if the old locations were not empty that seems to have been the problem, the stuff still in there got lost.

Again it's an 'advanced user' issue. (Or not so 'advanced' as they thought they were, or they would not have left stuff behind after redirecting paths).

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7 hours ago, nukecad said:

Again it's an 'advanced user' issue. (Or not so 'advanced' as they thought they were, or they would not have left stuff behind after redirecting paths).

While I'm sure the issue is in many cases inflicted by the user, it's not necessarily the only cause.  Part of the issue is for some reason, MS decided to leave the actual default folders within the user directory despite the same folders being redirected. This naturally means those folders exist in two places on the same drive (when viewed from explorer), amplifying confusion when selecting a folder to save stuff too, i.e. "This PC\Documents" (redirect honored) vs "C:\Users\<username>\Documents" (no redirect), Ironically the legacy programmatically accessed "C:\Users\<username>\My Documents" would be redirected. Why they didn't force windows to create hard links (like My Documents) when redirection happens is beyond me, I can only assume this is part of what they were trying to address, by deleting the folders in the update.

However, another thing that can happen is these actual folders which should be empty sometimes end up with stuff inside them without user interaction (even if they were empty when/just after the redirection occurred, and/or there wasn't some accidental user selecting the wrong spot issue). Basically some programs seem to end up storing stuff in the non-redirected folders. (again MS didn't force those folders to become file system hardlinks so this COULDN'T happen, for whatever reason), so, either the programs aren't using the correct procedure to get the user's (redirected) folders, or windows is failing to do the redirects under certain conditions. (I know this can happen as I have two programs that did this, although in my case they only created empty folders, but I'm sure there are some programs that do more than create empty folders).  Naturally once this does happen, these folders are likely the automatically selected locations for saving from within these programs, so a user doesn't really have to select the "wrong" location, they have apps which help them do it ;).

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Indeed, I wasn't blaming the users for the error, just pointing out that it shouldn't affect 'normal' home users as they would not have any redirects.

I also agree about 3rd party programmes not respecting the redirects, maybe they are explicitly using the 'expected' pathnames rather than polling Windows for the correct, redirected, location. (Lazy programming?)

I actually had this happen last night.
My only redirect is (was) to 'Videos' so that large video files were put on my D: drive instead of C:.
Last night I downloded a full series from BBC iPlayer to watch offline later.
Despite the redirect this created a new 'Videos' folder and subfolders on C: and put all the downloads in there.
(I can't find any way to tell iPlayer not to do that, the iPlayer download settings are pretty basic).

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Fair enough, I did interpret your prior comment as blaming the users, so sorry about that, I guess mainly because IMO from a purely technical perspective I can see the point of view that it generally does boil down to the user but at the same time, realistically there is a fair bit of cajoling which helps the error to occur, hence my view is that it's unfair to blame the user in this case (or at least to solely blame the user), and figured I'd point it out.

And yeah it could be considered lazy programming, personally I'd be inclined to think it's more due to a lack of consistency since MS insists on implementing things in a rather odd fashion, when compared to both other OS's, and even Older Windows OS's. They have this habit of trying to fix things that aren't broken, or changing things for the sake of change. Like I mentioned in my previous post they could force a redirect at the file system level which is how Linux does these things, and is how they used to do things in prior versions, only instead they changed it so now you can make a blank folder in the user directory with the same name as a redirected folder and you can fill both of them with completely different things. (I'm not really sure it actually qualifies as being a truly "redirected" folder, considering these conditions).

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Windows 10 bug prevents Registry backup creation from build 1803  and 1809 for some users (I am one of them)

https://www.ghacks.net/2018/10/31/windows-10-bug-prevents-registry-backup-creation/

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Windows 10 includes a task that creates backups of the Windows Registry regularly when the system is idle. These backups are placed in the C:\Windows\System32\config\RegBack and can be used to restore the Registry.

Current versions of Windows 10, including at the very least Windows 10 version 1803 and 1809, and the latest Insider builds of version 1903, report in the Task Scheduler that the Registry backup task completed successfully when it has not in fact.

 

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17 hours ago, hazelnut said:

Windows 10 bug prevents Registry backup creation from build 1803  and 1809 for some users (I am one of them)

 

I am too, those registry backup files exist on my system however they're all zero bytes, so no backup.

I've installed Tweaking.com Registry Backup (freeware), that way I have a known good registry backup.

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