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Paul Piriform

Changes in v5.45 and your feedback

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4 hours ago, Willy2 said:

- To be frank I don't understand what all the fuss is about. I agree that the good folks at Piriform "made a mistake" in the program code of CC and do hope that they fix this "unwanted behaviour" in the next version of CC.

- But some of the responses/replies in this thread are - IMO - (a bit) "over the top". I simply took the advice given in this or another thread on this forum and removed CC version v5.45 and installed v5.44.

if it was just the one 'mistake', no user would have cared too much.  there would have been an initial backlash but things would have settled down.
but it was the kind of mistake, the repeated mistakes (in yet another version), the way it was introduced, and the utter lack of any information in weeks apart from that one "we have listened, it will be fixed" that finally broke the camel's back.

it is simply that the user base has had enough.  fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice (3 times, 4 times.....), shame on me.
each of the previous 'mistakes' usually made some users find alternatives, but either the hunt for them was too hard or they simply didn't do what CC did for them and they scurried back to the devil they knew.
but when that devil itself became the very issue they had with the alternatives, they have gone "bugger it, I might as well use something else now".

and let us be honest here, the sneaky implementation of the heartbeat/monitor issue was no mistake.

for me, the nail in the coffin was the company's failure to take control of the narrative.  (this forum being a prime example)
in fact, that implies they participated in the narrative but were out out voiced whereas they have decided to not even participate.

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15 hours ago, Nergal said:

I have hidden 5.45 announcement from public viewing,

Cheers Nergal,

I think my point was that it should have been removed/hidden by Piriform themselves as soon as 5.45 was withdrawn.

The fact that it wasn't removed shows a (surprising?) lack of thought or organisation.

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18 hours ago, mta said:

and let us be honest here, the sneaky implementation of the heartbeat/monitor issue was no mistake.

Precisely. It was not a mistake. I believe (as all of us should), that the decision to insert/implement the "Heartbeat" monitoring system was discussed, created, coded in, tested and put "out there" for us to be "monitored"... at least our usage practices, at least. This, without the courtesy of an "Opt-Out" button. Had I not known to look into "what's new" in programs that I use (or may acquire), before allowing an update or install, I would have allowed this (in my opinion) "sneaky" move on Avast/Piriform/cCleaner's part. The move was not a flippant, off-the-cuff afterthought - it couldn't be. Privacy concerns is part of everyone's daily computer use today, I'd venture to say. In my opinion, they (Avast/Piriform/cCleaner) must have known there would be blow-back, and opted to gamble that their followers would accept the default "opt-in", and the other things I read that the changes in v5.45 affected. (I did not use it, so I only read about the Tray thing... and running after program close... whatever). They knew, and put it out there, believing many of us would "swallow". Others have said this, and I'll echo: "I'm sick of this attitude". I found a couple of alternatives that will do what cCleaner did - no problem... There will be plenty of people who are still unaware of Avast/Piriform/cCleaner's transgression, and who probably updated, not knowing of the changes. There will be others who believe it isn't a big thing, and will accept the monitoring... there will be new users, who don't know Avast/Piriform/cCleaner's past, but heard that "cCleaner is good", in some manner of context, and will download and use it. cCleaner may yet survive this debacle (on their part), but it sure won't be from support of those that think more of themselves than Avast/Piriform/cCleaner does. Any "mistake" would be made by us, as users... accepting disrespect is really getting old. I calmly, thoughtfully choose a different software "family" of products. They did not make a mistake, nor will I. I know it's just software, but I actually feel a little betrayed. My trust of them is gone; I'll always doubt. So I'm gone from their list. As for other users - as always, it's your choice.

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Please use paragraphs, that last post hurt my head :rolleyes:

When people are saying mistake, they don't mean accident or bug.  The company mistakenly thought that this would not cause a big stir.  They didn't take into account that many people did not use/want monitoring turned on.(1)

I do wish they had not included the forced heartbeat and seemingly lied when they said (or had us moderators say) that the ccleaner update.exe was only going to be used to deliver safe builds incase of infection happens again. 

I also think they are silent while untangling their code for the two aspects.  Remember they programmed this in a way that was simple.  The outcry has made them have to do the "harder way", but coding it will take time especially if they are also fixing other bugs, both that come up as they code and ones from older versions (by @mta's count 5 versions are hecka buggy).

(1) why they didn't know this when they knew many didn't use scheduled cleaning, i'm a unclear about.

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I've been a CCleaner user for much of the past decade, and have always considered it reliable so routinely have upgraded when new versions are posted to FileHippo and the morning bootup reveals the one installed on my different computers needs replacing.  I followed that protocol again with the 5.45 release, but rather quickly discovered that it was crashing on both Win10 and Win7 machines -- figured it was just a foible of something in the release that hadn't been fully beta-tested and so proceeded to uninstall that new release and re-install the functionality of v5.44 until there was a subsequent update notice.

Just discovered this bit of news about Piriform becoming part of Avast and the intrinsic problems with the active monitoring setup -- not at all sure that I'll make the effort to upgrade when there's a new release, but will certainly wait a few days and read through the forum posts to make a final decision.

Sad...really sad.  The demanding thirst for monetization through analytics has imposed such near-requisites for covert exfiltration of user information to satisfy the bottom line from what had been reputable and trustworthy firms, but that list is rapidly shrinking to a vanishing point.

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- Piriform could have taken CC v5.44 and rebranded it to CC v5.46 and issued that version ASAP. Then a lot people wouldn't have been "ticked off". And to limit any further damage Piriform still could do this (also ASAP). In the meantime Piriform can work on improving CC v5.45 and issue that improved version as CC v4.47.

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Just wanted to thank-you Moderators for being (refreshingly) open and honest with the forum members here.  You don't see that much in moderated forums these days.  Well done !  :)

I don't think that the "kimono will be opened" by Piriform and the truth told because of the potential legal liabilities.  In today's world, it is rare for a company to openly admit they did wrong without being legally forced to do it.  More examples (and variations) surface every day of the unsuspecting public being spied upon buy the very software tools they use each day.  The corruption embedded in that kind of stuff and the cover-ups to shield discovery is very disturbing.  All the best to everyone here that is looking for a replacement product to something that we should have been able to trust, but can't.

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thanks Tex.

luckily us Mods aren't tied to the company in any way.
we are all just volunteers here, freely given up our time to help others, and that part, we (well, I should only really talk for me) enjoy.
it's the very reason I started, and have stayed, on the forum.
all being a Mod really means is we get extra forum housekeeping duties like banning rule-breakers and moving posts to their correct threads. :)

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2 hours ago, Tex2018 said:

Just wanted to thank-you Moderators for being (refreshingly) open and honest with the forum members here.  You don't see that much in moderated forums these days.  Well done !  ...

+1.  Well stated.

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As a complete newbie on this particular forum - but as a decade long FORMER user of Ccleaner ... I would just like to echo Imacri's post [quoting Tex2018] by thanking and indeed congratulating the Moderators for their willingness to take issue with the product developers and in so doing reinforce the discomfort expressed by so many end users [not only on this forum but in Social Media as well]. Rare indeed !!!

I have personally concluded that this "monitoring" imposition was entirely deliberate as was the tardy response in rectifying - so that as much data as possible could be collected from the less knowledgeable end-users to serve the dubious mission of the present owners of Piriform.  This view is only reinforced by the fact that their Facebook page makes no mention of the "recall" of version 5.45 and reinstatement of version 5.44 [last post is dated 24 July 2018 and promotes version 5.45]

This "solution" also leaves one feeling that the programmers needed more time to find a surreptitious way of achieving the same objective - gathering "monitoring" information without alerting users as clumsily as they did on their first attempt.

Trust is a precious commodity - and once broken is seldom restored. 

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On 8/18/2018 at 14:51, Nergal said:

Please use paragraphs, that last post hurt my head

My apologies to all - I'm a Newbie to forums... and over 70... a bad combination at times.

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I'm still using 5.45 (free) with an added firewall rule to block outgoing connections, and no issues with monitoring turning itself on, or additional processes running.

 

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On 8/3/2018 at 15:30, Stephen Piriform said:

Thank you all for your continued feedback (positive and negative, it all helps). I wanted to give a quick progress update on what we're doing. We’re currently working on separating out cleaning functionality from analytics reporting and offering more user control options which will be remembered when CCleaner is closed. We’re also creating a factsheet to share which will outline the data we collect, for which purposes and how it is processed.

Today we have removed v5.45 and reverted to v5.44 as the main download for CCleaner while we work on a new version with several key improvements. You can grab version 5.44 from one of the links below:

(File hashes here: https://forum.piriform.com/topic/52095-ccleaner-v5446575/)

Software Changes

As stated before, we'll split cleaning alerts (which don't send any data) from UI trend data (which is anonymous and only there to measure the user experience) and provide a separate setting for each in the user preferences. Some of these features run as a separate process from the UI: we'll restore visibility of this in the notifications area, and you'll be able to close it down from that icon menu as before.

We understand the importance of this to you all. This work is our number 1 priority and we are taking the time to get it right in the next release. There are numerous changes required, so that does mean it will take weeks, not days. While we work on this, we have removed version 5.45 and reinstated version 5.44.

Hey everyone,

Just a quick update to confirm that v5.46 is currently in the final stages of testing. Assuming no problems are found, both it and the Data Factsheet will be available in the middle of next week.

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I don't think anyone cares about future updates. Damage is done.

Have you consulted your GDPR lawyers this time or are you scamming enough that you can quite happily pay your 5% annual turnover ICO fine.

I have never updated since you forced Avast install on me. Then argued the toss that there was an option to disable the install. Which there wasn't.

Sold your soul to the devil. Game over.

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On 8/20/2018 at 07:39, Kernol said:

Trust is a precious commodity - and once broken is seldom restored. 

Doesn't really matter what the software product is anymore rather it's free or paid you really have to pay attention to what it's doing, and some at least give a clue during setup that they'll collect telemetry data.

On a Windows system I don't trust anything anymore not even from previously trusted sources. Looking at the amount of never ending logs created by the Win10 OS, and installed programs that alone to me is a definite clue.

The OS is built to spy upon us with telemetry, certain graphics drivers enable a telemetry task (NVIDIA) and create a buttload of tracking data according to posts I've seen on other forums, and many PC manufacturers want daily telemetry (some allow opting-out during initial registration/configuration of a system), etc.

While telemetry is active in allot of closed-source freeware software ("spyware"), it's even more disturbing when it's enabled in paid for software.

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On 8/22/2018 at 20:07, Stephen Piriform said:

Hey everyone,

Just a quick update to confirm that v5.46 is currently in the final stages of testing. Assuming no problems are found, both it and the Data Factsheet will be available in the middle of next week.

Version 5.46.6652 is now live. Here is the release announcement and file hashes: 

And here is the Data Factsheet:

https://www.ccleaner.com/about/data-factsheet

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Hello... just sliding in with my own comments. Still using v5.40.6411 on Windows 7. Thought I'd check the forum before I updated since I've had some issues in the past.
Glad I did! I think I will stay with my current version for now.

Also, I've been using Avast free AntiV for some time now. This whole debacle now has me wondering if I should also find an alternative Antivirus program. Seems to me that Avast are the ones whose trust is in question. After scooping up their competitor AVG and now Piriform, it appears that having a much larger database of users to sell their merchandise to is more important than actually delivering a product that is supposed to protect the user from the very behavior that they are pursuing. It's an interesting conundrum. Learn the techniques of the spyware you blacklist, only to try using those tactics yourself in a skillfully crafted manner against a long-time loyal customer base which is almost akin to a "cult" status. This is a huge breach of trust IMO.

For those wanting to check out alternatives, Google [removed] Found this site a couple days ago.

Edited by Nergal
this is an official company website

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Removed competition software, this is an official company website so alternatives are not allowed

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On 8/30/2018 at 14:29, Stephen Piriform said:

Version 5.46.6652 is now live. Here is the release announcement and file hashes: 

And here is the Data Factsheet:

https://www.ccleaner.com/about/data-factsheet

RESPECT ***** - having previously abandoned CCleaner after the obligatory "monitoring" saga in version 5.45 [even on the Professional Version] - I was curious about whether lessons had been learned in the latest edition - 5.46.  I am delighted to observe that it seems that member concerns have been FULLY taken on board - to the extent that not only can you permanently turn off "monitoring" [now renamed "Smart Cleaning"] - but even in the Free version under Options > Privacy the user can completely turn off telemetry [data gathering - whether "anonymous" or not]. As I recall in prior Free versions one could turn off the 3rd party sharing of telemetry - but not the data gathering itself by Piriform.

The key to success going forward will be to completely resist the temptation to "sneak" telemetry back into future updates - in other words respecting the choices set by users in their existing setup of CCleaner and not overwriting those to their default of allowing the gathering of "anonymous" data.  As a precaution I have blocked the product at my firewall - and so far no sign of heart-beats ... but I will be alerted if any further attempts are made to access my data.

As mentioned by Andavari in a post above [23 August 2018] there are MANY programs that gather telemetry [and much more] including in particular the Windows 10 OS - and in some it is possible to opt out - but all too often no opt out options exists and blocking access requires a high level of technical skills not available to most users.

Well done Piriform ... the functionality of the CCleaner product has always been great with relatively few glitches over a long period of time.  I am pleased that I have been able to return to using it - albeit with a watchful eye after the 5.45 "bruising". ?

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Thanks a lot, developers. I'd like to voluntarily contribute what my final activity on CCleaner would be, which is uninstalling it completely from my system and from any others that I manage. Bye CCleaner, it's been swell.

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On ‎30‎-‎8‎-‎2018 at 15:18, jopa66 said:

Quote: "Learn the techniques of the spyware you blacklist, only to try using those tactics yourself in a skillfully crafted manner against a long-time loyal customer base which is almost akin to a "cult" status. This is a huge breach of trust IMO."

- CCleaner is a "cult" ?? I don't feel it that way. It's simply a good program and then I am NOT going to abandon the program when one version misbehaves. I still have several previous versions of CC stored on my HD and that allowed me to go back to a previous version within the blink of an eye.

- Yes, we'll have to see how CC v5.46 behaves. When it behaves well then I am almost back to having full confidence in the program. Remember the saying: "One bitten, twice shy" ?

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      Greetings, Professor Falken, and fellow Long Time Users of Piriform Software.  I've been using the Great "Crap Cleaner" ever since Windows 98 with no problems, until the last update when it mysteriously closed after booting "My Precious!" I kept wondering "Why would it suddenly close and NOT clean my HDD, even if the OPTIONS setting, "RUN When Computer Starts is Checked?" This was giving me a headache, and was appalled at this and had seen news that Avast, another "Fine" Antivirus Company, which I prefer to AVG, whom initially, you could have included Sub-Folders in their Exlusions, and then after awhile, when software engineers "Love to Change Things," you couldn't, had bought Piriform... THANX!!

So, after a week, I left my Trusty CCleaner and went to [competition software], which is also good, IMO.  Then I saw something in the Registry Cleaner Options that I really never noticed. There is a tick to clean the Run at Startup.  Thought to myself, maybe this is preventing CCleaner to engage upon boot, and also a nasty thought about Avast Taking Control of CCleaner. Maybe, Avast wants to know What-You've-Got-Under-the-Hood even more so!

SO, after the headache, I had told CCleaner to NOT Run at Startup in the Registry Cleaner (uncheck the tick) and Avast NOT TO SCAN CCleaner folder under Exclusions, Rebooted, and BAM! CCleaner is NOW cleaning HDD when booting.  Problem Fixed B)\~ (peace pipe)

Edited by Nergal
removed competition software

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RETRACTION ***** - Please ignore my post above giving "respect" to Piriform / Avast.  They have failed abysmally once again - telemetry STILL runs even after un-ticking the Privacy Options which would lead you to believe they allowed a paid user to turn off the data flow to both their servers [CCleaner and Avast].  Without blocking them at the Firewall - they will still be accessing your data ?

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37 minutes ago, Kernol said:

 - they will still be accessing your data ?

that was never going to go away, just the way they tried to implement it in the pulled v5.45
they are collection 'anonymous' data, have done for ages.

this from the v5.46 changelog

Quote

In this release, we’ve made stability improvements and added better reporting to allow us to deliver faster bug fixes and software improvements

and this previous statement; https://forum.piriform.com/topic/52360-changes-in-v545-and-your-feedback/

 

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Yeah. The Data Factsheet (you know, the stuff nobody reads) states pretty clearly in the first section that:

'...it is necessary for some data, such as the operating system you’re on, whether you’re using a free or paid version of CCleaner, and the language you’re using, to be reported.'

and

'...anonymous usage data doesn’t need to be reported for us to maintain CCleaner, but it does help us to build a better product. It provides us with statistics about what is being used within CCleaner and what isn’t. ... You can choose whether you’d like CCleaner to report anonymous data in CCleaner’s ‘Privacy’ tab.'

So you're still going to get that initial ping on CC startup, even if you've unchecked the usage data box. Should you care? That's up to you, I rate it at about the same level as eveyone knowing what make and model of car I use everytime I go to the shops.

 

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