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nukecad

Avast antivirus installations from CCleaner installer

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Tried with Malwarebytes Anti Exploit turned off, still got the 2.5 second delay.

Speedtest.net results: Date 1/4/2018 12:50 GMT, Download 4.30 Mbps, Upload 3.09 Mbps, Latency 27 Ms, Server Distance ~50 mi

Same laptop as above so all other info is the same.

One thing I have noticed is that in all this testing the offer has always been for Chrome (not Avast or Google toolbar), not sure if that is relevant or not?

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13 hours ago, nukecad said:

Tried with Malwarebytes Anti Exploit turned off, still got the 2.5 second delay.

Speedtest.net results: Date 1/4/2018 12:50 GMT, Download 4.30 Mbps, Upload 3.09 Mbps, Latency 27 Ms, Server Distance ~50 mi

Same laptop as above so all other info is the same.

One thing I have noticed is that in all this testing the offer has always been for Chrome (not Avast or Google toolbar), not sure if that is relevant or not?

Previously you said this:

Quote

I have noticed that the new Avast/Chrome offering with CCleaner now appears to be using a sneaky tactic, which in my opinion is not acceptable.

The issue I have noticed is that the bundled offering in the CCleaner installer does not appear onscreen for a full 2 seconds after the install button is available.

This delay appears to be 'built in' - which is the problem.

[...]

Ok, you know the delay is there now, and not to click install until you can untick the offering.

But you only have to forget once, or be in a rush, and then you'll get an unwanted install of Avast/Chrome/google toolbar.

 

Please can you confirm:

  • If you have experienced a delay in the latest release of CCleaner with the Avast offer in particular?
  • If you have experienced any other than immediately after booting up/restarting the system?

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Yes,  it was originally a mixture of the Avast and Chrome offers where I first noticed that there seemed to be a 'long' delay. (ccsetup535.exe and later).
All my testing to your instructions has been with ccsetup538.exe, updated version downloaded 14/12/2107, and has always given the Chrome offer.

When I was doing my previous testing of different installer versions I was getting offered all 3 (Avast, Chrome, Google Toolbar) at different times.
I was concentrating more on the installer version than the actual offer. As said with that testing there was a change following the hijack incident (which to be honest was what I was looking for).

 

And yes, it's not just immediately after a fresh boot. I originally noticed the delay when installing the monthly updates, I usually install any programme updates shortly before I shut down. (I'm not one who leaves my PCs running all the time, I always shut down when not in use).
Having said that it does seem only to happen the first time that the installer is run in each new session.
ie. Run the installer anytime after booting and you get the delay - abort the installer and run it again later, no delay.
(This is why I put a reboot in the version testing).

 

PS. Just thinking/guessing here;
I note that above you mention browser settings and 'where the offer content is stored'.
Does this imply that the installer is 'phoning home' for the offer content? And maybe waits 2.5 seconds to see if a valid connection can be made before then displaying a default offer?
Could this explain why I am always seeing Chrome in this v538 testing - the connection cannot be made and so I'm getting a 'built in' local offer after 2.5 secs?
(That could also explain why there is no delay on second or subsequent testing runs without a reboot, the flag has already been set that the connection cannot be made).

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19 hours ago, nukecad said:

Run the installer anytime after booting and you get the delay - abort the installer and run it again later, no delay.

If I've understood correctly, this information and testing all relates to the Chrome offer. The Avast offer behaves differently, so it's not accurate to assume that behaviour of the Chrome offer signifies the Avast offer will behave the same way. Either way, it's useful to have this information about a delay in the Chrome offer. For the time being I will focus on the Avast offer issues as having an antivirus solution installed without consent is a much bigger problem (not to mention it's more difficult to remove).

 

Quote

PS. Just thinking/guessing here;
I note that above you mention browser settings and 'where the offer content is stored'.
Does this imply that the installer is 'phoning home' for the offer content? And maybe waits 2.5 seconds to see if a valid connection can be made before then displaying a default offer?
Could this explain why I am always seeing Chrome in this v538 testing - the connection cannot be made and so I'm getting a 'built in' local offer after 2.5 secs?
(That could also explain why there is no delay on second or subsequent testing runs without a reboot, the flag has already been set that the connection cannot be made).

The Chrome content is always built in, the Avast content is delivered remotely. However, without going into specifics, any delay in displaying the Avast offer is not related to having a slow or no connection. At that point it is not connection-dependent. At most only one offer is shown, and the Chrome offer will be shown over the Avast offer if eligible.

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Update on Avast offer delay bug

We have managed to reproduce the Avast offer delay by performing a full system scan with MalwareBytes at the time the offer content is due to be displayed. This suggests a delivery/rendering performance issue due to high system load. The IE control responsible for creating the HTML document and rendering the web content is being blocked by one or more other processes.

To guard against the offer (and user consent) failing to display before the CCleaner installation has begun, we will extend the synchronous dependencies of the first Install screen to include waiting for the Avast offer to be ready to be displayed before that screen is shown. In other words, if you are eligible to see the Avast offer, you won't see the Install button unless that offer has been shown and you have had an opportunity to decline it.

This touches the core install flow and requires careful development and extensive testing to ensure we don't introduce any other bugs that could affect the CCleaner install process. We are about to lock down the build for this month's release so it is unlikely this fix will make it in. The Avast offer delay bug will likely be fixed in the February release.

This month we will release CCleaner Portable on day 1 along with the Free and Pro installers.

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Thanks for the explanation of how the Chrome/Avast offers are delivered.

(PS. Chrome can also be a pain to remove completely,  just uninstalling it is not enough, uninstalling leaves numerous files, registry entries, registry changes, etc. behind).

Good to see that you have been able to replicate a delay, even though from the description it does not seem to be the same delay that I am seeing.

Hopefully the modification to the installer will prevent any delay in displaying an offer, whatever the cause.

As a next step maybe the developers could consider not having the offer selected by default?
Many people consider 'offer selected by default' as a bit of a dodgy practice.

 

Thanks again for taking a look at this issue.

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Here's a thought: When presenting the AVAST offer, have the install checkbox UNCHECKED (a/k/a Opt-In). If I want AVAST, I'll check it myself. You can even add a 2 second delay for me to read the offer before the "next" button is enabled.

Before, if I accidently installed Chrome, I could easily uninstall it. AVAST is a royal pain to uninstall (if it even uninstalls 100% of the files and registry settings.)

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On 1/5/2018 at 16:55, BillB4 said:

Here's a thought: When presenting the AVAST offer, have the install checkbox UNCHECKED (a/k/a Opt-In). If I want AVAST, I'll check it myself. You can even add a 2 second delay for me to read the offer before the "next" button is enabled.

Before, if I accidently installed Chrome, I could easily uninstall it. AVAST is a royal pain to uninstall (if it even uninstalls 100% of the files and registry settings.)

That's a business decision and not one that the developers of CCleaner have a choice in. We will add in some functionality so that once you've opted out you are ineligible for the same offer.

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Update on Avast offer delay bug - Fix candidate

We have a tentative fix for this issue. It works according to the method we have to reproduce the issue internally, but we want to be sure it addresses the same conditions that cause the issue on your machines.

If you can reliably reproduce the delay in the Avast offer appearing with a delay or on the wrong screen of the CCleaner Free installer, and you would like to assist us in testing the fix we have, please send a private message to me here on the forums and I will provide further details.

If we can prove this fix externally with your assistance within the next couple of days, we can add this to the January release (v5.39).

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I totally agree with the writer on this topic.  It installs Avast automatically and does not give a person enough time to UN-check the box. 

This has caused problems with people that have other anti-virus systems on their computers and do not want to change to Avast.

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On 12/01/2018 at 11:43, Stephen Piriform said:

Update 

This fix has been pushed to the v5.40 release as we have not been able to give it sufficient testing time within the January release cycle (ETA February 13th).

Hi Stephen,

Interesting, because something seems to have changed with v5.39 (or maybe last weeks Windows update?).

I downloaded/ran the v5.39 installer and it offered the Avast bundle.
(In fact 5.37 & 5.38 installers are also now offering me the Avast bundle if/when I run them).

Using the 'reset' testing as per before it shows a 'loading' bar for about 2 or 2-1/2 seconds and then displays the install button and Avast offer both at the same time (screenshots attached).

Any of my older installer versions, 5.36 or earlier, shows no offer at all no matter how long I wait.
Also if I disconnect from the internet (flight mode) none of my new installers, including v5.39 shows any offer.

I've attached various screenshots in a zip file.

All my specs are as previous except for the Windows build: now 16299.192
Windows 10 Home, v1709, build 16299.192, 64 bit.
Intel Celeron CPU N2840 @2.16GHz (Overclocks to 2.58).
4 GB RAM.

Running Windows Defender plus MB Anti-Exploit stand alone.

CC install caps.zip

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I registered just to add to this thread. I've been a Piriform Pro user for years (read: my purchase of Pro versions are supposed to support the company so I shouldn't get this PUP stuff). I just installed CCleaner pro on a new PC - selected customize as usual - and saw NO offers for extra software. I was shocked to find Avast suddenly appear. After the last CCleaner malware debacle, I thought Piriform would be extra vigilant not to further tarnish it's previously sterling reputation. This should be fixed immediately! Installing PUP's that require a special uninstaller tool should not only require an OPT-IN, but also an "ARE YOU ABSOLUTELY SURE" message.

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11 hours ago, BJosephs said:

I registered just to add to this thread. I've been a Piriform Pro user for years (read: my purchase of Pro versions are supposed to support the company so I shouldn't get this PUP stuff). I just installed CCleaner pro on a new PC - selected customize as usual - and saw NO offers for extra software. I was shocked to find Avast suddenly appear. After the last CCleaner malware debacle, I thought Piriform would be extra vigilant not to further tarnish it's previously sterling reputation. This should be fixed immediately! Installing PUP's that require a special uninstaller tool should not only require an OPT-IN, but also an "ARE YOU ABSOLUTELY SURE" message.

Hi BJosephs,

I'd like to clear a few things up.

Firstly, the CCleaner Pro installer does not contain any Avast offer (or Google offer, for that matter). If you got the CCleaner installer from CCleaner.com and you did not make a purchase by clicking the 'Buy Now' button, you likely downloaded the 'Free' installer. The Pro installer download link is in your purchase confirmation email. A Pro license is valid for 12 months from the date that it was purchased.

Secondly, the Free edition is supported by offers in the installer and one of these is the Avast Free antivirus offer. If you did not see any consent checkbox for installing Avast Free antivirus when you first ran this installer on your new PC, I'd like to collect some information from you as this is not at all the intended behaviour. (On subsequent runs, the CCleaner installer will not show an Avast offer if it detects that [A] Avast has already been offered or Avast is already installed.)

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Information we are seeking from those who did not get a consent checkbox during an installation of CCleaner that resulted in the installation of Avast Free antivirus:

  1. Which version of CCleaner were you installing?
    • (e.g. v5.39)
  2. At the time you installed CCleaner, had you restarted your computer in the past 30 minutes?
  3. Did you use any of the Custom Installation Options in the CCleaner installer?
  4. Which product version and edition of Windows are you running?
    • (e.g. Windows 7 Professional Edition)
    • (e.g. Windows 10 Home Edition)
  5. If Windows 10, did you update from an older version of Windows?
    • (e.g. Yes, I updated from Windows 7)
    • (e.g. No, this machine has a fresh install of Windows 10)
  6. If Windows 10, do you have the Creators Edition update?
    • (e.g. Yes, I updated from Windows 7)
    • (e.g. No, this machine has a fresh install of Windows 10)
    • (e.g. Not sure)
  7. If known, what is your operating system architecture?
    • (e.g. 32-bit, 64-bit)
  8. Which malware/antivirus applications did you have active?
    • (e.g. Windows Defender)
    • (e.g. Malwarebytes)
    • (e.g. Bitdefender with Malwarebytes)
  9. Which internet browser do you primarily use?
    • (e.g. Edge)
    • (e.g. Firefox)
    • (e.g. Chrome)

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Information we are seeking from those who did not get a consent checkbox during an installation of CCleaner that resulted in the installation of Avast Free antivirus:

I'm one of those people, and I always check the custom installation to look for these things. I refuse to use avast to delete its own program, i suspect it too will be hard to get rid of.

1.) Downloaded version 5.4

2.) No i had not restarted my computer, nor did i restart it for over an hour after ccleaner was installed and the popup said to restart.

3.) Yes, i always use the custom installation to look for these things

4.) I run windows 8.1

5) n/a

6.) n/a

7.) 64bit

8.) I have a lifetime membership to malwarebytes, wish ccleaner had one

9.) I use firefox

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Here is my story:

Yesterday I updated Ccleaner Free to version 5.40.6411 on a Windows 7 Pro 64 bit system which has Bitdefender Antivirus Free Edition installed. A short time later the system froze up and I lost control of both mouse and keyboard. My only option was to hold the power button for a forced shutdown. This happened two more times. The system would boot up and several minutes later it would freeze again. Before the third shutdown I noticed that Windows notified me in the system tray that my antivirus was turned off and I had no protection! I then spotted the Avast icon on my desktop! What the…? How did that get there? Then the system froze again and I forced shutdown. This time I booted into safe mode, checked installed programs and discovered that Avast was indeed installed. I read up on how to uninstall and downloaded the Avast cleaner and dumped it. I rebooted and Bitdefender was running, Windows was satisfied, and no more freeze up.

I use Filehippo App Manager to update my programs and this is the way I always update Ccleaner. I did not notice anything unusual when I installed this time. But I did have another computer to update (also Windows 7). But before this, I did my research on the web and discovered that many people were having this same problem of Ccleaner automatic Avast installs. So on my second computer I tried something different. I went straight to the Ccleaner site and downloaded the installer. I launched it and paid close attention. There was no ticked box or any mention of Avast. I also clicked for custom install and still no mention of Avast. I did not go through with the install though. I canceled because I wanted to check the installer that Filehippo downloaded for me. I opened Filehippo and started the Ccleaner install. On the first window of the installer there it was at the bottom! It was a bar at the bottom shaded in a slightly different color, which I think, had caused me to believe it was just some ad not connected with the install. IT IS NOT! When looking closer this time, I saw the ticked box to install Avast! (Check out attached screenshot)

With my research, I am aware that Avast now owns Priform. This is a very sneaky and underhanded way for Avast to market their product and is just wrong! The box should be UN-ticked by default!

With that being said, what angers me more about this, is the fact that Avast borked my computer and left me unprotected and exposed to viruses! Bitdefender was not only turned off, but Avast failed to install itself correctly!

How can we be expected to give this company our trust? I have used Ccleaner for many years and recommended it to many. I can’t in good faith recommend it as well as Avast anymore. I am now considering other options for cleaning my computer, but I will keep my eye out for how Avast/Priform is going to handle this situation.

Capture.PNG

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I notice in the post above that the avast offer is clearly displayed in the screenshot

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2 hours ago, Nergal said:

I notice in the post above that the avast offer is clearly displayed in the screenshot

You are quite correct sir. I am wondering if some who are claiming there was no box, have in fact, just missed it as I did? I never saw it the first time, and as I stated, I believe that this is because at a casual glance, it appears to be a banner ad at the bottom which is not connected with the actual installation. Do you notice the two different shades of color? The CCleaner "Install or customize" section is in grey, while the Avast part is in its own section of white giving the subtle illusion that they are separate.  I do understand why they set it up this way. They want you to try their product and they tick the box hoping it may slip by you. It sure slipped by me! And many others, it would appear!

But the point I want to make is this:  Marketing of this type for an antivirus is absolutely unacceptable for the following reasons!

1.  An antivirus program should NEVER EVER be set up for an automatic installation! There was no Avast installer that came up. The icon just showed up on my desktop and in my           installed  programs without my knowledge.

2.  The program did not even install correctly! It shut off my antivirus of choice and locked me out from any input on keyboard or mouse!

For me, this qualifies Avast as a D.U.P.  (Defiantly Unwanted  Program)  I say again, this is unacceptable!

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I would also like to add, that at the time when I took the screenshot, there was no delay. The Avast offering showed up at the instant the install window opened. As for the first time when it caught me, I'm just guessing that it was there and I overlooked it. I can't really say for sure though.

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Honorable of BradB52 and TaxPreper to admit that the offer and tickbox was there, but that they had missed seeing it.

I suspect that this is the case with the majority of the complaints seen about unwanted installs.

Which makes it harder to track down if/when there is a genuine problem, such as the delay that prompted me to start this thread.


Whatever you think about bundled installers they are a fact of life and you need to take care to carefully read any installer, for any programme, before clciking the install button.

I don't think that the Avast offer with CCleaner is particularly hidden, I'd say the Mcafee offer with Flash is worse for that. (And I've seen a lot worse elsewhere).

But I don't like anything that has a pre-ticked box for an offer, make the offer and let the user tick the box if they want it.

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  1. Which version of CCleaner were you installing?  v5.40.6411 (64 bit)
  2. At the time you installed CCleaner, had you restarted your computer in the past 30 minutes?  No
  3. Did you use any of the Custom Installation Options in the CCleaner installer?  Yes
  4. Which product version and edition of Windows are you running?  Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit SP1
  5. If Windows 10, do you have the Creators Edition update?  N/A
  6. If known, what is your operating system architecture?  64-bit
  7. Which malware/antivirus applications did you have active?
    • Windows Defender
    • Malwarebytes
    • Avira
  8. Which internet browser do you primarily use?
    • Firefox

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