slow Defragmenting and moving same files

[julevine]

i noticed that defragmenting my drive is so slow and it will move same files that don't need moving

 

even if i let it defrag whole drive then i defrag again it moves same files all over again

 

 

 

i understand if there is free space between files it has to move files around but it was no free space between files

 

 

 

it just keeps moving same files out then back in to same location

 

i can't use defraggler anymore because of this issue

 

please fix this issue soon

 

thank you

[Nergal]

1 defragmenting, in general, is a slow process, that depends of fragmentation/disc-specs.

2 How do you know better than the logic of the software whether a file needs shuffling or not; this is not meant to be mean, I am truly curious.

3you should either only do file defrag (second tab) if you wish for some quickness, else turn off system auto hibernate/sleep/shut-down and leave it over night (sometimes longer depending on 1 above)

Edited July 18, 2013 by Nergal
clarity in thought.

[julevine]

if there no free space between files the files should not be moved

only if there is free space between them they should be moved so there together

[Alan_B]

if there no free space between files the files should not be moved

only if there is free space between them they should be moved so there together

You are measuring the free space HOW - BY WHAT TOOLS ?

Are you accurately assessing the ending LBA of one file and the starting LBA of the next file ?

or simply assuming that the absence of a white square in between two files denotes absence of Free Space ?

 

Depending upon the size of a partition and the number of cells to represent that partition,

one white square could easily represent 1 GByte of free space,

and perhaps a 500 MByte of free space would not qualify for a white cell.

[julevine]

but after i defrag whole drive and do it again right after why does it move same files

 

out then back to same block spot

 

this makes no sense

 

it not just moving a few files it moving all the files it moved before

 

the only unmovable fragmented file is $UsnJrnl:$J

 

 

im using windows xp pro 32 40GB drive

 

ive seen same behavoir on different systems also on different OS windows 7

 

 

 

please figure out why it doing this

[DennisD]

Just to add a little to Nergals post above, I assume here we're talking about your system drive? Do you have any exclusions set?

 

I'm talking about System Volume Information (System Restore) and the Paging File (pagefile.sys).

 

These are in a constant state of flux, being modified more or less continuously by Windows therefore will never be 100% free of fragmentation, and they are large files.

 

http://forum.pirifor...65

 

The paging file can be added manually in "Settings\Options\Exclude".

 

Just a thought.

 

 

EDIT: Which files are being constantly moved by the way?

[julevine]

system restore files i have excuded and

some other large files excuded

 

my page file is set with one size

 

it so many files it will be too hard to list them

 

i do not think i can explain any better

[DennisD]

A 40GB drive isn't too big by todays standards, and that isn't any sort of a criticism by the way, but I'm wondering because of that how much free space you actually have.

 

To defrag you should have something between 12 - 15% free.

 

How are you standing with that, and another thought ... does this happen with other defrag programs?

[Andavari]

To defrag you should have something between 12 - 15% free.

 

There can be a higher requirement than that though. I remember once Defraggler complaining on a hard disk with 18% free space reported by Windows not being enough real available disk space which is evidently a different thing for defrag tools compared to what Windows reports.

[julevine]

i have plenty of free space around 9.35Gb

 

 

using other defrag programs this does not happen

 

it moving same files that do not get modified

[DennisD]

I can't offer anything else without knowing which files are the guilty ones.

 

Are they system files, large video files?

 

Could they be "System Volume Information" files even though you have these excluded. We did have a member recently with that exact problem.

 

Mind you if I did know which files are being moved like this, I may still not have a solution for you, but others may.

[julevine]

there so many files

 

the only thing i think i can do is move each file to end of drive and add it to excluded list 1 at a time

 

this will take a while

[julevine]

i removed alot of large files from drive and ran it it still takes long time it had nothing to do with the free space fragments

 

 

it is reading/writing extra slow alot slower then drive speed

 

my drive reads and writes at 40MB /s

 

it very hard to explain behavior at some drive locations on drive

 

i will try to do a screen shot and mark locations

[julevine]

i removed more game files but it not helping seems it memory priority problem i have it on normal but still very slow

 

and allso how it moving files i will try to explain behavior

 

lets say it a free space block to fill that block with files it will move files that is in front of that block but will moving files all over the place

 

instead of picking closest files that fit

 

this problem need to be fixed

 

 

 

thanks

[Alan_B]

my drive reads and writes at 40MB /s

I do not believe it is possible for fragmentation to make a HDD run slower than a USB2 Flash drive.

 

Is it possible your computer hardware is defective ?

 

Do you need to restore DMA mode ?

Perhaps this will point you how to fix it.

http://forum.pirifor...showtopic=38431

[julevine]

my hard drive speed is normal and it in DMA mode

 

this problem has to do with defraggler

 

i removed more game files but it not helping seems it memory priority problem i have it on normal but still very slow

 

and allso how it moving files i will try to explain behavior

 

lets say it a free space block to fill that block with files it will move files that is in front of that block but will moving files all over the place

 

instead of picking closest files that fit

 

this problem need to be fixed

 

please only moderators/defraggler programmers reply

 

thanks

[Nergal]

1 defragmenting, in general, is a slow process, that depends of fragmentation/disc-specs.

2 How do you know better than the logic of the software whether a file needs shuffling or not; this is not meant to be mean, I am truly curious.

3you should either only do file defrag (second tab) if you wish for some quickness, else turn off system auto hibernate/sleep/shut-down and leave it over night (sometimes longer depending on 1 above)

after many post I've decided that my points 2 and 3 have not really been touched on.

but  after i defrag whole drive and  do it again right after  why does it  move same files

 

out then back to same block spot

because defragmenting and fragmenting of files is how the process on a windows machine works.

because some files are fragment locked with untouchable files.

because you haven't tried my suggestion #3 above.

 

Nothing that you've mentioned seems to be out of the ordinary for ANY defragmentation, I'm not even seeing what exactly the issue is, past a perceived slowness to what is essentially a slow process. Are you running defraggler in safe mode? Or at least with most services, such as file indexers, google desktop, AV scanning, not running? How busy is the pc's RAM? Is anything else contributing to disc-usage? How about the CPU?

Please enable the "save settings as ini" and attach a copy your settings ini to this thread, you may have to change its extension to .txt from .ini first.

 

 

Edit: Regards to you request

please only  moderators/defraggler  programmers reply

while the developers read every topic they don't really take part in topics. The moderation staff, however, has no sway and are JUST NORMAL USERS like yourself and the other gracious posters in this thread; our only difference is that we keep order in the forum and can ban troublemakers. Your request would narrow down anyone able to aid you to solely 6 people, two of whom are already attempting to help but (at least one) doesn't even see what the issue is yet. I'd suggest you rethink your limitation, if you do wish to get to the bottom of your issue

Edited August 13, 2013 by Nergal
statement on developer involvement likelihood.

[Andavari]

Are you running defraggler in safe mode? Or at least with most services, such as file indexers, google desktop, AV scanning, not running? How busy is the pc's RAM? Is anything else contributing to disc-usage? How about the CPU?

 

All good points.

 

It can often help to first clean with CCleaner, and then start temporarily disabling other running programs, etc., that can/may/will interfere. Anti-Virus/Anti-Malware/Anti-Spyware software has always been one of the known main culprits of causing a slow defrag.

[25G]

Defraggler definitely has at least two problems and two bugs.

 

Prbl 1: the "moves same alrdy defragged files". Does not detect a large alrdy fully defragged "string" of files but starts "moving them just a little" (for another ten or more hours, again and again).

Typically when a large "area" fully alrdy defragged, from start of disk, but a "the bug" in the middle.

Prbl 2: GOes into "blip" mode,"blip" from watching HD LED , or using resource monitoring for HD access, CPU usage, Memory free. That is, spends some 5-20s "doing nothing" (no HD access, little CPU usage) inbetween "actual work".

Typ when defragging, or moving the "list of fragm files" or a specific "block"

 

BUG1: leaves blue blocks in empty space, but clicking them says "no files". However, it seems there actually is files there?

Defraggler internal data corrupted, systematically, a;ways same way.

 

Then BUG2, which together with above problems makes a REAL problem.

Defraggler somehow messes up the access to some files (handful on 4-5 tested 2TB HDs).

This leaves undefragged "red dots" in the middle of otherwise fully defragged areas.

Interestingly the bug is not the one (normal) file that is left undefragged, but often it's neighbors.

Note, these neighbors are also "normal movable files", and no bad sectors, have run HDDREG repeatedly.

(been there, done that, "locked bad sectors" HDDREGH fixes, spare sectors, etc as well as othrws locked files)

 

HOWEVER, when telling defraggler to move these NEIGHBOR files the graphic screen of blocks typically goes "haywire".

Typically "broad stripes" of "wrong info" all over the graph-block display.

Yypical overflow or over-run of data, messed up linked lists, etc?

Note, this only happens during the defrag or move process, after that "normal display" returns, with the other problems as before.

 

NET RESULT. If one of this "bad red dots" appear fairly early on the HD defragging it will also go into "move same files again and again" during repeated defrag-attempts. Never gets past that spot, except by moving the undefragged and its neighbors to another HD and a new defrag attempt.

 

VERY IRRITATING, as defraggler "never" gets to the rest or last files on the HD.

THat is, without moving all alrdy defragged files "just a little" for another 40 hours.

Whats worse, sometimes in "blip" mode. One little 4kB cluster every 10th second.

[Nergal]

if you feel so strongly that it is a bug please supply a debugging log for the developers to look at. You can find instructions under the defraggler documentation linked in my signature (under troubleshooting)

[25G]

THanks, Nergal, hadn't noticed the debug and log capabilities.

Quick check, need to dblcheck when time

 

1. no log for the "blue occupied blocks" and defrag saying "no files"

2. one problem-file or "repeat red-dot offender" seem to be associated with failing in search for free block when trying to move and-or defragment it, but need to repeat and check what really goes on

 

PS Found where the time is wasted, all seconds doing "the map".

Also good info on how defrag searches for files to fill a "potential free block". Should help me "nail the move same files again and again every new defragging"

 

PPS Note, the "irritating" behaviour is when lets say 50% is alrdy defragged but the rest a mess. Defraggler starts working on the already defragged "same files again and again", often from "persistent red dots" and never(maybe in a cpl of days) gets *down" to the mess. Shld be some way to define a starting point.

 

A user-friendly, immediate report on unmovable files, $MFT etc as well as the real problem, unreadable sectors, as well as locked ones wld help a lot too

[25G]

Cldnt resist checking some more after having seen the basic functions in the log file.

One solution to the "same files again and again" mighy be to search for "the file to stick into an empty place" from BEHIND, the ens of the partition!

Now it seems defraggler searches for first suitable after the "hole" and will thus fragnebt alrdy defragged area.

That is, soon run into that hole, then produce another hole slightly "below", etc,etc..

It becomes a process of "moving holes", not files, all through alrdy defragmented area.

[25G]

Btw, first irritating feature of defraggler, after the first joy of seeing what goes on both as text and dots on screen, was how seemingly out of synch, or at least delayed, these two were, and worse when additionally observing actual HD activity.

(reminded of yhis when seeing all the 2-4 or more seconds of "doing map" in the log file)

[25G]

Nergal, found a clue to some "weird behaviour" having to do with "move to end of disk" on a partition already sppr 15% defragmented moving large files to end of disk with limit 10MB.

 

Using /debug the debug file just kept growing and growing, to GB (GIGA) size,

Turned out it was filling up with "CDefragFileList::FindFileAt" calls, writing this log text.

 

[2013-08-17] [22:07:01.396] 01380 3 CVolumeHandleManager::GetHandle#34 Volume \: open, handle 0x00000554.

[2013-08-17] [22:07:01.396] 00f14 1 CDefragmentation::MoveFilesToTail#440 Entering CDefragmentation::MoveFilesToTail

[2013-08-17] [22:07:01.396] 00f14 3 CVolumeHandleManager::GetHandle#34 Volume \: open, handle 0x00000554.

[2013-08-17] [22:07:01.396] 00f14 1 CDefragFileList::FindFileAt#232 FindFileAt starts for 488376243

[2013-08-17] [22:07:01.396] 00f14 1 CDefragFileList::FindFileAt#232 FindFileAt starts for 488376242

[2013-08-17] [22:07:01.396] 00f14 1 CDefragFileList::FindFileAt#232 FindFileAt starts for 488376241

etc.

 

After half an hour I gave up, cldnt open, view the log file much before that.

Note, although it was possible to exit and close the defraggler window this process, thread? continued.

This "process still continues" is something I have noticed before by checking, monitoring.

However, this time I guessed it was fairly OK to kill the process using Process Explorer which did it.

(I run chkdsk afterwards, not sure, maybe complained abt bitmap and fixed it)

 

Anyway, same "stuck doing something" also happened without the /debug, wasnt the major reason for seemingly "doing nothing"

 

That is, defraggler was starting from end of disk searching for a free space in a very very slow fashion. So slow any normal user wld assume "stuck", reboot or whatever.

 

FInal check, made a "hole" in the alrdy defragged area close to the end and now the same "move to end" did it fairly fast (tens of seconds)

 

PS Of course, with that hole near the end a following normal frag started "moving same files again and again", like shuffling chairs in a row by moving every chair one position until one gets to the end.(instd of finding a suitable chair at the end and move it to the hole)

[Nergal]

the developers will need the debug log, are you doing the most basic debug (just debug not debug2 or 3)