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Willy2

Win Defender vs. MS essentials

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I need some advice. I tried to GOOGLE the next problem but it didn't provide any definitive/satisfactory answers.

 

I installed the AVAST AV program (NOT the free one, AVAST offered a discount on the regular price). This is the program that protects my Win 7 system in REAL TIME. I also installed the free versions of Malwarebytes & MS Security essentials. I run the last two programs about every one to two weeks to make sure AVAST doesn't overlook anything. (as advised on the "How to geek" website).

http://www.howtogeek...virus-programs/

 

Questions:

1. Is MS security essentials the same as Windows Defender ?

2. Some folks (Hazelnut ???) on this forum have talked about a "layered approach" . What's meant by that ?

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I personally would not have 2 antivirus installed at the same time even if one of them is disabled.

 

See here for more info on the differences between Win Def and MSE

 

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/protect/forum/mse-protect_start/what-is-the-difference-between-microsoft-security/a1225404-e58c-4999-93d2-f5ef78208994

 

I tend not to install security suites (composed of anti-virus, anti-spyware, firewall and everything else they can stick in the program) I prefer to have a separate firewall, a separate anti virus etc, usually from different companies, so if one fails I have the safety net of the others programs to catch things.

 

I think of this as a layered approach to security.

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About the only antivirus that can "somewhat be safely used alongside" a real-time protection one is ClamWin Antivirus or ClamWin Portable since they have no real-time protection, but still there's the risk of false positives of one antivirus detecting signature files in the other one when having two on the same system.

 

I'm with Hazelnut on not installing those security suites.

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I'm with the others. I would also suggest not having two or more antivirus software installed at a time who both have real time protection because having 2 antivirus software installed at the same time could be a system killer!!! I have seen machines performing really slow at startup because two antivirus software were conflicting each other and the results on system performance were devastating on lower-end machines. In fact, some antivirus software would warn you to uninstall other existing AV programs currently installed on the system when you run their installation setup. I would strongly suggest removing one of either Avast or MSE.

 

No problems with Malwarebytes because its not meant to be a standalone AV program and can be installed on the same machine safely with another AV software. I have tried MSE with Malwarebytes as a supplement on a low-end machine and they worked harmoniously without conflicts that would cause system slowdowns.

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But only one AV program is active in "Real Time". The others are just not active.

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It took me LOTS of GOOGLE-ing to find an answer to another question I had.

 

MS Security Essentials turns off Windows Defender. And when MSE is removed (using the official un-installer !!!) Windows Defender is turned back on.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/protect/forum/mse-protect_start/microsoft-security-essentials-turns-off-windows/06e9ad25-f263-459f-a14a-6afaea010f49

 

And that's why the Win Defender Service is turned off as well. Now things are starting to make much more sense.

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mh...on xp runs both, but i need only ms security?

 

or better ms defender and another antivirus...?

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@Trium: (Lesen Sie das Antwort im zweiten Post). Read the answer (and the link) Hazelnut gave in the second post.

 

@Hazelnut: I am curious. Win 7 has two folders, "C:\program files\Defender" (for Defender) and "C:\program files\Security client" (for MS Essentials). Does Win 8 have both folders as well ?

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@Trium: (Lesen Sie das Antwort im zweiten Post). Read the answer (and the link) Hazelnut gave in the second post.

 

i make the same :)

 

@Hazelnut: I am curious. Win 7 has two folders, "C:\program files\Defender" (for Defender) and "C:\program files\Security client" (for MS Essentials). Does Win 8 have both folders as well ?

 

http://forum.piriform.com/index.php?showtopic=36952

 

:D

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Final report:

1. I ditched MSE completely.

2. Switched off the WinDefend Service. Didn't kill it though.

3. Since MSE & WinDefender seem to be the slowest security software, I now also don't trust MS Firewall any more. Switched the MS firewall Service off as well.

4. AVAST AV has 10 shields. I only activated the "Behaviour" and "file" shields.

5. Activated the AVAST firewall as well.

6. Malwarebytes still installed as a backup (intend to run it every say 1 to 2 weeks). It isn't a "loud mouth" program like MSE.

The end result is that CPU usage is significantly lower, icons always show up on the task bar and opening files takes significantly less time.

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Since MSE & WinDefender seem to be the slowest security software, I now also don't trust...

 

Slow scanning yes (especially on WinXP machines, not as bad on newer OSes) but the scanning speed has no correlation to the real-time protection so I think in my opinion any distrust of MSE in that regard isn't valid.

 

Although the main complaint against MSE is the scanning speed, if only Microsoft could address it but then again it isn't like a Full Scan has to be performed daily. Instead it's possible to use the Quick Scan and maybe once per week, or once per month do a Full Scan. Too many people forget or are blind to the fact that real-time protection is on all the time, therefore doing a Full Scan everyday is rather pointless.

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@Andavari: The slow scan speed was not the only reason why I ditched MSE. The second reason was that MSE also starts a process "MsMspeng.exe", even when it's not in "Real time protection" mode. And I couldn't kill that process.

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Too many people forget or are blind to the fact that real-time protection is on all the time, therefore doing a Full Scan everyday is rather pointless.

 

Hear Hear !

Scheduled AV scans are a waste of time and resources. But the warm fuzzy feeling they give you is priceless.

Do an initial full scan when you install your AV, then everything you do on the PC gets scanned as you do it.

Open an email - scanned.

Visit a web site - scanned.

Edit a document - scanned.

If you suspect something has crept in, like from a daughter copying 'school work' from a USB stick and hitting Ignore on the warning pop-ups - by all means initiate a full scan (and nuke said USB stick)

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@Andavari: The slow scan speed was not the only reason why I ditched MSE. The second reason was that MSE also starts a process "MsMspeng.exe", even when it's not in "Real time protection" mode. And I couldn't kill that process.

 

That's the engine for it. Rather easy to fully turn off via a batch file and MSE won't even fight the turning off process:

 

Stop MSE Service.bat

net stop "MsMpSvc"
cls
exit

 

Start MSE Service.bat

net start "MsMpSvc"
cls
exit

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Start MSE Service.bat

net start "MsMpSvc"
cls
exit

Is "cls" needed for the "priceless warm fuzzy feeling" of clearing the DOS window before closing it :)

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That's the engine for it. Rather easy to fully turn off via a batch file and MSE won't even fight the turning off process:

 

Stop MSE Service.bat

net stop "MsMpSvc"
cls
exit

 

Start MSE Service.bat

net start "MsMpSvc"
cls
exit

 

Out of curiosity I re-installed MSSE and tried to stop that Service using that command. But even with Administrator rights I can't stop or disable that Service. Seems permission settings won't allow me to stop (net stop ....) or disable (sc config .....) that Service. I can't find any other explanation.

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Sort of relevant, maybe not too useful:

I just got finished installing Avast! free version 8.0.1489 and Outpost version 7.1.1 on this win 7 64 bit machine. Norton ran out.

Outpost 7.1.1 is a security suite, but If you install the Avast! AV first, the Outpost antvirus doesn't install.

They are cooperating nicely.

 

Good about Outpost is that it has that auto-learn mode, and is pretty easy to configure.

Bad about this version is it pops up stuff pretty often, and says it is registered for only 66 more days. Thought it was a year.

 

Edit: The popups will probably lessen as time passes and Outpost learns what is OK.

 

Thanks, Willy2, for this very informative topic.

Edited by login123

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Out of curiosity I re-installed MSSE and tried to stop that Service using that command.

 

It works on XP, if you're using something newer that could be the reason.

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The popups will probably lessen as time passes and Outpost learns what is OK.

 

While I understand those popups are necessary for those types of security software to "learn" a system they are very annoying. That's why I don't miss thinks like ZoneAlarm, etc.

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