Windows search corruption and Index rebuild

[gringopig]

Hi all,

I recently have been trying to find the reason as to why my Windows 7 machines are having the Windows search index rebuilt at boot due to corruption ans strongly suspect that it a the new setting in Application; that of 'MS search'.

Just after boot but before the Windows search service starts, Event Viewer will throw up loads of errors about corrupt indexes and logfiles, ESENT errors and JET database errors - requiring the index to be rebuilt from scratch and consequently my 270k items on 4 HDDs are then re-indexed!

 

This has not happened all the time but as it has just come to my attention, I now see this happen often and only at boot. I have noticed a new setting in CCleaner under Applications - Windows and I suspect this is what's breaking the index.

It wasn't in version 3.08.1475 and must have been added in subsequent builds!

This function deletes important files from the ProgramData/Microsoft/Search/data/Applications, depending on whether the files are locked by the OS or not.

May I suggest this function is REMOVED?

 

Or at least make it unselected by default as many users will be re-indexing constantly and be blissfully unaware of this. It is actually breaking an important function of Windows.

 

I am testing to make sure this is the culprit but surely the developer's do not intend these consequences?

[Winapp2.ini]

MS Search removes the search index. If you don't want to do this, then simply uncheck the setting.

 

All defaults in the Applications tab not related to web browsers would be set to false, in an ideal world.

[Alan_B]

All defaults in the Applications tab not related to web browsers would be set to false, in an ideal world.

Unfortunately setting new items to a default state OFF will defeat the purpose of those who always update as soon as possible to squeeze the maximum "junk" out.

 

Users who download and use without bothering to inspect the latest changes would never get any extra benefit,

and would be blissfully unaware that their updates were a waste of time.

 

I think it reasonable for the developers to exercise their own judgement upon the probability of harm and to set new low risk capability ON by default.

 

In this case I suggest the harm was minimal - just some delay to rebuild the index.

 

Probably took less time to rebuild than to post a complaint

[Winapp2.ini]

True. I keep the winapp2.ini entries set to off by default, since some of them are a bit invasive, and I think if you're choosing to add additional things, what is on should be at your discretion, however I do find it nice that the devs (rather astutely) pick some to be on by default.

[gringopig]

Unfortunately setting new items to a default state OFF will defeat the purpose of those who always update as soon as possible to squeeze the maximum "junk" out.

 

Users who download and use without bothering to inspect the latest changes would never get any extra benefit,

and would be blissfully unaware that their updates were a waste of time.

 

I think it reasonable for the developers to exercise their own judgement upon the probability of harm and to set new low risk capability ON by default.

 

In this case I suggest the harm was minimal - just some delay to rebuild the index.

 

Probably took less time to rebuild than to post a complaint

 

Er, no actually. I have 271,930 items indexed spread on multiple hard drives and it is not a trivial thing to keep on rebuilding the database on almost every boot. Add on to that all the debugging and re-installation of MS Office and registry hacks to reset the Search function in order to try to track this issue down. Not trivial.

 

Add to that the normal user of this program who installs and forgets, trusting the developer not to set a parameter which, by default actually breaks an essential Windows component!

Those 14 errors in Event Viewer are not the result of some harmless cleaning of unnecessary files and folders.

I would urge the developers to either switch this off by default or preferably, to remove it entirely!

 

I have been recommending CCleaner to friends and family for a long time now and believe me, NONE of them even know what Windows Search is, never mind about how it works. What they DO mind is the churning of ancient HDDs.

Power users may choose to clean the operational files of an integral Windows component, normal users should not be forced to...

[Winapp2.ini]

Might I suggest Search Everything?

 

http://www.voidtools.com/download.php

 

It reads the MFT, so you needent rebuild an index to search with it.

[Alan_B]

Might I suggest Search Everything?

 

http://www.voidtools.com/download.php

 

It reads the MFT, so you needent rebuild an index to search with it.

I second that.

 

Windows Search is useless and never gets anywhere outside of partition C:\ for normal users with Partition Image backups.

 

If it ever thought I was searching for a file and it went outside of C:\,

even though it obeyed my configuration to REFRAIN from exploring compressed archives (ZIP etc.)

it could not resist digging into Acronis TIB images and going CATATONIC.

Task Manager said Windows explorer was not responding.

It could stay like that for hours.

It never changed until I selected the process(es) Dumpreg.exe and right clicked for "End Process Tree"

 

Remember, Normal users are not forced to upgrade.

 

They should only do so for a benefit.

I am sorry but I reserve my sympathy for someone who suffers extra work re-installing something that was broken,

and have little sympathy if he only suffers the inconvenience of a longer boot time because of the HOPE of a benefit (** rarely delivered) whilst ignoring the associated risks.

 

** rarely delivered is my experience in that every few months I update and I compare what the old version and the new version wish to clean.

I only see extra junk detected for removal when one of my applications is updated and it puts its junk in a new place that the old CCleaner never anticipated.

[gringopig]

I always think that CCleaner should be like the healing maggot; a medical marvel - eating away at the dead flesh.

What horror though if these squirmy friends should burrow deep and eat the heart!

[Alan_B]

I think of CCleaner as being :-

like a surgeon that has full knowledge of and is very careful with the major organs such as the heart and takes zero risks ;

also like a cosmetic surgeon where the stakes are not so high and attempting ultimate perfection is sometimes counter-productive

[Smartyx71]

Hello gringopig, thank you very much for posting this issue overhere. Thanks to this post I found the reason of the constant rebuilding of my search index.

 

I am one of these so called advanced PC users, the ones that help friends and family out when they have pc-trouble. In the past years I have been using Ccleaner with default settings and without any negative consequences. That´s why I recommend it to less computer literate people as well. I completely agree with you that Ccleaner developers should turn the MS Search options OFF by default, as it creates unwanted effects for the average user.

 

@Alan_B and Winapp2: you are the typical computer geeks that are not able to understand that 95% of the world is not like you. Ccleaner profiles itself as a cleanup tool for the millions, it is not a geek tool. Its strength has always been to be a reliable cleanup tool that can be used with default settings without harming your system. With the MS Search option, Ccleaner causes trouble with standard functionality in Windows, this should be fixed!

And how ridiculous is it to say "Windows Search is useless anyway" and even suggest another indexing tool.... pfff

Imagine you go to a carwash, they wash your car and afterwards your radio-antenna is broken. You would say: Radio is useless anyway, CD´s give you better soundquality, I suggest you listen only CD´s in the future....

[Winapp2.ini]

Fair enough statement. I suggested Search Everything to help him sort through his 270,000 files a bit faster (it really does help ) but I do agree with the sentiment that it should be off by default

 

All defaults in the Applications tab not related to web browsers would be set to false, in an ideal world.

[Alan_B]

I am one of these so called advanced PC users, the ones that help friends and family out when they have pc-trouble.

 

I am sorry for your friends if you insist that they persevere with a broken Windows Search Tool when there are far better and faster alternatives.

 

On XP Home + SP3 I found that Windows Search always stalled and needed Windows Task Manager to kill its frozen process if it searched a Drive that held an Acronis *.TIB image backup file.

 

Your mileage may differ, but do not assume that what works for you will always work for everyone else.

[Book]

 

May I suggest this function is REMOVED?

 

Or at least make it unselected by default as many users will be re-indexing constantly and be blissfully unaware of this. It is actually breaking an important function of Windows.

 

I am testing to make sure this is the culprit but surely the developer's do not intend these consequences?

 

 

I am a long-time CCleaner fan and have, over the years, installed it on many machines for friends. Piriform needs to immediately take this issue very seriously.

 

Diagnosing and disabling this new default function wasted a lot of my time. A lot of my time. It screws up Windows 7. This is unacceptable.

 

Please consider this thread a serious bug report.

 

Thanks to the OP poster for identifying this serious problem.

[JDPower]

Might I suggest Search Everything?

 

http://www.voidtools.com/download.php

 

It reads the MFT, so you needent rebuild an index to search with it.

OT: I missed this thread first time round. That's an amazing little search tool, thanks Winapp

[Crni]

I'm having the same issue with Windows re-indexing everything after each boot.

I have disabled MS Search, and MS Search More*, but something is still interfering with indexing.

I tried disabling Saved Search Folders* and Windows Search Logs*, but that didn't help

I checked all settings inside Registry and everything looks OK. If I don't use CCleaner everything works fine, but after I run it Windows will start rebuilding index cache as soon as I reboot. In the meantime Outlook will keep complaining about search being disabled and items not being indexed.

I assume something else that doesn't have such obvious name is responsible for deleting something that Windows Search relies on.

 

What else can cause rebuilding search index?

[Nergal]

I'm having the same issue with Windows re-indexing everything after each boot.

I have disabled MS Search, and MS Search More*, but something is still interfering with indexing.

I tried disabling Saved Search Folders* and Windows Search Logs*, but that didn't help

I checked all settings inside Registry and everything looks OK. If I don't use CCleaner everything works fine, but after I run it Windows will start rebuilding index cache as soon as I reboot. In the meantime Outlook will keep complaining about search being disabled and items not being indexed.

I assume something else that doesn't have such obvious name is responsible for deleting something that Windows Search relies on.

 

What else can cause rebuilding search index?

we cannot help you until you remove all non-default ccleaner items (provided by winapp2.ini and/or any enhancing products). I can tell you use them because you have * after some of your entries. Also you need to start your own thread.

[Cruiser07]

I used CCleaner on my laptop the first time on the weekend. I left the default setting on settings tab 'Applications', section 'Windows' - and destroyed my Windows Search!

I don't understand, like people before me in this thread, how this can be a default setting!!

The index was rebuild (it takes ~2-3 hours), for about 93.000 items. But today, less than 24 hours later, MS Search is broken again! At least partly - in Outlook (2010) MS Search doesn't work anymore. I checked the index under Control Panel -> Indexing Options: I see that only 64.500 items are indexed now - 30.000 less than in the morning.

How could this happen? I did not run CCleaner manually, neither have I set the option to run CCleaner when the computer starts.

 

Is CCleaner still doing something automatically!?!?!? Under Tools -> Startup -> Scheduled Tasks, when I activate 'Advanced Mode', I see task CCleanerSkipUAC. It runs CCleaner.exe $(Arg0).

[marktheharp]

I had a similar issue with the Windows search index being rebuilt, and after reading these forums and discovering the issue, I always made sure "MS Search" was unchecked so I didn't lose my search index, and that's been fine. I only run CCleaner manually.

 

I have not used CCleaner in a while and I've just upgraded to version 4.10.4570, windows 7 64-bit. I noticed that MS Search no longer appears in the Windows or Applications tabs - but I don't know if that's because it cleans it automatically now, or whether it's been removed, or even if it's now silently included as part of something else on the list. There's no mention of any recent changes to MS Search in the CCleaner changelog.

 

I like CCleaner but my index is 600k+ files and it takes quite a while to rebuild the index from scratch, so I'm very reluctant to run CCleaner any more until I know what it does with MS Search. So...if anyone knows, please say!