! Tell XP+SSD users !

[SteveBijer]

CCleaner is GREAT...greater than even Piriform realizes! :-D

 

Piriform should BRAG that CCleaner also trims SSD's (= re-sets bits to zer0)!!

 

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT because ~75% of all computer users (especially businesses) in the world STILL USE Windows XP.

 

Every month now a million more XP users buy a new SSD (solid state drive) which must be manually trimmed to maintain top speed. XP does not support auto-trim unlike Vista and Win7. Yet only 15% of users have Vista or Win7.

 

While a few (slow) programs allow XP users to MANUALLY trim an SSD, NO program exists--EXCEPT CCleaner--to AUTOMATICALLY trim the SSD.

 

For example, "AS Cleaner 0.5" is the most popular trim program for XP users, but takes 15-30+ minutes to manually trim a 100 GB SSD. Worse yet, the computer is too slow to use during the trim!

 

In contrast, it is easy to configure CCleaner to quickly auto-trim every time it deletes files! So, an SSD ALWAYS operates at peak speed without any special attention! Wow! :-)

 

 

Simply choose "Options, Settings, Secure Deletion "Simple Overwrite (1 pass)", and select your drive(s) and "Wipe MFT Free Space"

 

HEY, Piriform, start bragging to the world! Tell the 250,000,000 XP users buying SSD's how great CCleaner is!

 

I have used CCleaner since 2009 to auto-trim my (4) four SSD's in my desktop and my laptop. Phenomenal!

 

Thank you, Piriform!

[Andavari]

This is already discussed here with some great detail:

http://forum.piriform.com/index.php?showtopic=22055

[SteveBijer]

This is already discussed here with some great detail:

http://forum.piriform.com/index.php?showtopic=22055

 

Yes, Andavari, BUT WHY MENTION A THREAD THAT IS 23 MONTHS OLD, DRAWS NO CLEAR CONCLUSIONS OR ADVICE, IS WRITTEN IN TECHNO-BABBLE, AND LACKS FIELD-TESTED RESULTS FROM BOTH EXPERTS AND USERS?!? :-()

[Augeas]

For a start Simply choose "Options, Settings, Secure Deletion "Simple Overwrite (1 pass)", and select your drive(s) and "Wipe MFT Free Space" is just incorrect. "Options, Settings, Secure Deletion, Simple Overwrite (1 pass)" applies to indivdual file deletion, and "select your drive(s) and Wipe MFT Free Space" applies to Wipe Free Space, and needs the corresponding option in the Cleaner section to be checked. The two are separate operations.

 

I think it is incumbent upon you to provide the rationale behind your claim that CC operates equivalent to a TRIM command, and the expert field-tested results. As far as I can see, as a non-expert, write speed deterioration on SSD's is caused by the SSD's inability to write on top of existing data. The old 4k data page has to be erased. However an erase command only operates on entire 512 kb blocks. This causes 512 kb of data to be read into cache, the 512 kb block on the SSD to be erased, the new page written in cache, and the entire 512 kb block being written back to the SSD. What TRIM does is to reset individual pages back to erased status, so a direct page write can be made.

 

CCleaner's secure file deletion merely edits the file data to be binary zeroes and then writes the file to the device, and the Wipe Free Space function writes a file or files over all free space on the device and then deletes them. The TRIM erase command resets the page status at the device level: CCleaner's erase writes data to the device. I can't see how this will be the equivalent of a TRIM command. But if it miraculously does then I'd be more than happy (does that mean ecstatic?) to be told how. Perhaps CC does issue a TRIM command. If it does I'm sure we would have been told.

 

I don't know whether this is either techno or babble, but it's the best I can do.

[Andavari]

BUT WHY MENTION A THREAD THAT IS 23 MONTHS OLD, DRAWS NO CLEAR CONCLUSIONS OR ADVICE, IS WRITTEN IN TECHNO-BABBLE, AND LACKS FIELD-TESTED RESULTS FROM BOTH EXPERTS AND USERS?!? :-()

All caps shouting just makes your post hard to read.

 

I pointed to that old topic because it's relevant and since CCleaner doesn't as of yet have any SSD Trim built into it so as to not have people thinking it does any trimming. There's been no official documentation of it from Piriform in any change logs, in fact the words/letters SSD and Trim don't even appear in any changes logs from way back to version 2.01.507.

[Super Fast]

Long story short, man, I think what they are trying to say is this:

 

CCleaner does not have TRIM:

CCleaner may cause drive performance to go back up due to the drive wipe/MFT operation, but it is NOT because of TRIM.

 

Anyway, that's awesome to know though.

[SteveBijer]

Thanks to everyone for your comments on this important subject! :-)

 

1st) Based on 2-3000 hours of use, I ABSOLUTELY KNOW that using CCleaner recovers the initial fast speed lost by my SSD's during normal use.

HOW? Well, I always measure the initial boot speed of my laptop and my desktop whenever I install a new boot drive (= SSD since 2007).

So when my desktop takes longer than 21 seconds to completely boot up, then I know it is slowing down.

I have used "AS Cleaner 0.5" (a popular trim program) and it recovers my desktop boot time back to 21 seconds.

I have also used CCleaner (see my initial post) for ~19 months now and it recovers the boot time to 21 seconds.

 

2nd) Augeas, if my CCleaner usage directions are wrong as you imply, then why does the boot time recover EXACTLY like happens when I use a trim program?

 

3rd) Sorry if my use of "CAPS" offended you, Andavari. Yet, with SSD's, a 23-months old thread is from the "last century." Forgive my emphasis please.

 

4th) Microsoft wants to sell new O$ systems, like Windows7. Supporting XP is far less profitable. Using the powerful "sticks and carrots" at its disposal, Microsoft has pressured hard drive manufacturers NOT to include auto-trim firmware for XP into SSD's. This forces consumers to buy Windows7 at the same time they buy an SSD. Worth many, many billion$ to Microsoft to do this.

 

Hmmm...so just why is Piriform NOT commenting for the last 3 years about trim and SSD's ...I take that as a bad sign of Microsoft at work. :-(

[Andavari]

4th) Microsoft wants to sell new O$ systems, like Windows7. Supporting XP is far less profitable. Using the powerful "sticks and carrots" at its disposal, Microsoft has pressured hard drive manufacturers NOT to include auto-trim firmware for XP into SSD's. This forces consumers to buy Windows7 at the same time they buy an SSD. Worth many, many billion$ to Microsoft to do this.

 

Hmmm...so just why is Piriform NOT commenting for the last 3 years about trim and SSD's ...I take that as a bad sign of Microsoft at work. :-(

We seriously need an XP SP4, a sort of last hurrah to fix bugs that are present in the OS.

 

Piriform not doing anything about SSD trimming who knows, they don't tell us because we're just regular users too like you. They may end up coming out with something eventually or implementing it into already existing software (note that this is not an official statement), however being a small software house I can imagine it just takes time to research everything then actually code it and release it as a beta.

[Augeas]

Steve, instead of saying your instructions are incorrect, I should have said that they apply to two different functions of CCleaner and not one homogenous component. Secure File Deletion overwrites the files CC has scheduled to clean, and WFS overwrites all the free space on the storage device, One might ask why one would overwrite deleted files and then overwrite them again during a WFS.

 

Secure file deletion and WFS are (usually) run from the Cleaner page of CC. This activates 40 to 50 CC functions. Which of these is making your pc run faster?

 

You say that running CC restores your pc's boot-up speed. Yet TRIM, which you mention several times in your first post, is a command that restores SSD write speeds. What's the ratio of writes to reads on bootup? I don't know, but there's probably far more reads than writes.

 

As far as I can find out, a TRIM command erases cells of pages used by a deleted file. This is done opportunistically, i.e when the SSD controller gets round to it. It probably uses the block copy/erase/write method as described above, as I don't think the hardware allows individual page erases. This is not what CC does, and is not writing zeroes to the cells.

 

If Microsoft haven't implemented TRIM in XP then how does CC manage it, or the equivalent? Why doesn't MS toss Piriforn a few million and buy up CC? I really don't know, but could it be that CC doesn't implement TRIM?

 

There's been a lot of discussion on SSD forums (some older than 23 months) about CC where write speeds have been measured before and after, with some users apparently getting considerable improvement, and others none. So whilst CC may speed up SSD's, I don't think it can claim to implement TRIM.

[SteveBijer]

Whether or not CCleaner actually trims SSD's "correctly", I will remain a 100% loyal supporter of Piriform... a great company with a great forum!

[SteveBijer]

Here is a detailed comparison of the SSD "trim" capabilities of CCleaner and "AS Cleaner 0.5"

 

Test Conclusions:

 

1) "AS Cleaner 0.5" takes the SAME TIME to trim a drive/partition regardless of how many bytes need to be reset to "0"

 

2) "CCleaner" takes VARIOUS TIMES to do a "secure 1-pass file deletion" (= reset used bytes to 0, or maybe to 1?).

The more files were just deleted, the more bytes need to be reset, and the longer it takes CCleaner to finish.

 

For example,

 

1) I used CCleaner to "secure 1-pass delete ("trim") my 40GB "C" drive.

 

a) Then I immediately deleted a ~15GB folder without using CCleaner (used Windows "folder too big" deletion)

Then I ran "AS Cleaner" which took 2m 39s to trim "C".

 

 

2) I used CCleaner normal file deletion (no secure 1-pass deletion) for ~1 week.

 

a) Then I deleted ~15GB folder, and used CCleaner "secure 1-pass deletion" --this took ONLY 20 seconds!

2) Then I immediately used AS Cleaner to trim "C" and it took 2m 39s

3) Then I deleted ~5GB of files, and again, AS Cleaner trimmed "C" in 2m 39s

 

 

See the Test Conclusions: at the top.