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Tigerllc74

Macrium Image, Clone and dead HD

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The question was raised about Macrium Reflect Image and dead HD..then CLone issue too...

 

Say..HD is dead. Can you restore Marcrium Image to NEW HD (different brand and/or different size..smaller or larger) ??? I don't think this is possible.

 

So Clone question comes up. (Macrium does NOT do Clone) IF I made a Clone file then I can restore Clone file onto NEW HD...Am I correct ??

Now Image files are smaller than Clone. My 80GB HD with 20GB data..image file is only 16GB. But Clone maybe entire 80GB in file size.

 

Also, (correct me if I am wrong)...Image or Clone is the content of entire HD, so it is same as using Factory Recovery disc plus extra datas..including OS. Therefore no need for factory recovery disc at all... Is this correct ?? I think so.

Thanks,

Tiger

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Dead: probably not (though I'm not particularly familure with Macrium)

 

Dying (clicking but still able to run): I've done a perfect clone with Miray's products. Freezing the drive (in a ziplock bag) can help some.

 

a clone is a clone so if you clone the drive (and not just the partition)you have a perfect copy of the drive.

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Dead: probably not (though I'm not particularly familure with Macrium)

 

Dying (clicking but still able to run): I've done a perfect clone with Miray's products. Freezing the drive (in a ziplock bag) can help some.

 

a clone is a clone so if you clone the drive (and not just the partition)you have a perfect copy of the drive.

So isn't Clone file same size as the HD size.. 80GB HD Clone file size will be 80GB ?? 250GB HD is 250GB file ?? No matter how little of space is uaed by actual data??

Thus no need for Factory Recovery disc ?? When buying used computers, Factory Recovery disc isn't included and costs $20.

 

Also, what Miray program for Clone ?? Freeware ??

Thanks

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Can you restore Marcrium Image to NEW HD (different brand and/or different size..smaller or larger) ??? I don't think this is possible.

Actually it is with the right Macrium setup. Macrium offers an add-on (Addition) they call "ReDeloy" that's capable of doing this. It costs about $20, but I don't know if it works with the free version of Reflect. You may need the commercial version that includes the Windows PE 2.0 recovery option (instead of linux). Here's a link where you can read more about it.

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As we discussed earlier Tiger, I had plans to use a Macrium Image when I replace my aging HD. All's OK with it at the moment, but it's nice to be prepared.

 

Never having needed this feature before, therefore never having looked into it, I would really have thought a Macrium Image would restore to a new hard drive as long as it was at least the same size or bigger, and it was in the same computer therefore having the same architecture.

 

That's one of the major reasons for having an Image backup. A hard drive failure as well as simply screwing up your Operating System. If this turns out not to be possible with Macrium it will be pretty disappointing because it's one of the most solid reliable programs of this type out there.

 

Some research needed methinks.

 

Good thread Tiger.

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Cloning a drive from just the Macrium descriptions means it will copy absolutely everything, so even after restoring that clone you could possibly use tools like Recuva to find deleted files. Well that's what I understood from it, but don't know if that's correct.

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So isn't Clone file same size as the HD size.. 80GB HD Clone file size will be 80GB ?? 250GB HD is 250GB file ?? No matter how little of space is uaed by actual data??

Thus no need for Factory Recovery disc ?? When buying used computers, Factory Recovery disc isn't included and costs $20.

 

Also, what Miray program for Clone ?? Freeware ??

Thanks

I'll provide you with a PM for the location of said software (then I'll discuss with other mods on whether to publicly publish.

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Say..HD is dead. Can you restore Marcrium Image to NEW HD (different brand and/or different size..smaller or larger) ??? I don't think this is possible.

I think you are wrong. There should be no problem.

When using Acronis I had a 30 GB HDD.

Christmas present to my Laptop was a 160 GB HDD and the Acronis boot CD restored and shrunk the 30 GB image.

I then had a 15 GB C:\ plus 145 GB of empty space ready for new partitions.

I now use Macrium and believe I have similar capability,

excepting that it only restores to the same or larger size.

 

Actually it is with the right Macrium setup. Macrium offers an add-on (Addition) they call "ReDeloy" that's capable of doing this. It costs about $20, but I don't know if it works with the free version of Reflect. You may need the commercial version that includes the Windows PE 2.0 recovery option (instead of linux). Here's a link where you can read more about it.

I think you are wrong.

 

As standard Macrium will restore your operating system on a different HDD without the "Additions Redeploy"

I believe the benefit of the extras is that you can restore the old image to a brand new totally different P.C.,

and at the same time incorporate new drivers which might be needed for the new hardware.

I have no experience of this but I am guessing that a brand new computer with SATA drives might not work too well with an image of a system from IDE drives.

 

Regards

Alan

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I think you are wrong.

 

As standard Macrium will restore your operating system on a different HDD without the "Additions Redeploy"

I believe the benefit of the extras is that you can restore the old image to a brand new totally different P.C.,

and at the same time incorporate new drivers which might be needed for the new hardware.

I have no experience of this but I am guessing that a brand new computer with SATA drives might not work too well with an image of a system from IDE drives.

 

Alan

You're right, Alan. I guess I didn't read the original post too carefully -- thought that's what they wanted to do -- migrate to a new computer.

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I have received a query by P.M., but am replying in this topic because others may be interested.

 

I have an Acer Laptop with XP Home pre-installed;

no installation disc and a right royal pain when Windows File Protection / System File Checker demands Windows Installation Discs.

Acer included Factory Recovery Discs for a instant fresh XP plus pre-installed Office bundle etc, and the local "Currys" shop supplied H.P. Installation discs when they sold my daughter a H.P. Printer.

 

I have never had any need for Acer's Factory Recovery Discs or the H.P. installation Discs.

 

My first attempt at restoring a image from a 30 GB HDD to a vacant 160 GB HDD was not valid.

I had validated the backup image with the "Live under Windows" Acronis application,

but I had NOT validated it by using the Acronis Boot CD.

Had I done so I would have realised my mistake of not creating a new CD when I updated Acronis.

The existing CD of the previous version did not understand the image created by the latest version.

 

I had to swap out the 160 GB and plug back in the 30 GB HDD

and then create a brand new Boot CD with the latest Acronis version.

 

My first valid attempt was a perfect success.

It booted up fine and all my applications were ready to run.

 

I do not know about the latest versions of Acronis,

but version 11 seemed to use a Linux based Boot CD.

This had generic drivers which were generally compatible with common hardware,

but some hardware was less compatible with generic Linux ! !

 

When the Acronis User Forum was on Wilders it was not uncommon to see a new topic from some one with only one post.

He/She either failed to validate an image before depending upon it,

or alternatively had validated under Windows but NOT tested whether the Boot CD was compatible with the hardware.

Ouch.

I suspect alternative image backups such as Easus may also be Linux based.

 

Macrium provides both a Linux Recovery CD and a BartPE CD.

Because I have the purchased version of Macrium I also have a "Windows P.E. 2.0" Boot CD.

If you use the Free version of Macrium you cannot receive a free download of "Windows P.E.".

But I believe this is something you may be able to extract from a Vista or W7 system.

 

I will admit that I worry about the first use of a Boot CD,

but once it has worked and the system has booted I only need a duplicate CD to be full of confidence

 

N.B. I never do anything unless I have both a means of undoing it and also at least one extra redundant "way back home";

Even so, I always trust an image that is validated under Windows.

I feel safe that if the checksums are good under Windows they will still be good under the Boot CD.

I have a spare Boot CD should my latest CD get scratched.

I keep earlier images in an archive just in case.

I also have a viable image on a Flash drive just in case my main archive HDD should die.

 

When restoring with Acronis, or Ghost, and probably many others,

I believe they sort of defrag what is restored - there are no empty spaces other than the big one at the end.

This is not a perfect Defrag and dedicated defrag utilities do a better job of optimising the file sequence for faster booting etc.

 

A good thing about Macrium is that it restores files to the same positions,

so if a particular file needs to be within ???? MB of the start of the disc,

it will be in the same position when restored and it should boot well.

I do not know what can go wrong when files are defragged upon restoration by Acronis/Ghost etc.

but I have my suspicions ! !

 

N.B. When I create a new image I restore that image as a different partition which proves everything is good.

Then paranoia strikes and I do a file/folder comparison of C:\ with the restored image just to be sure.

I also repeat the comparison when I wonder if anything has sneaked in when I was not looking ! !

Finally I repeat the comparison before I make the next image,

and that reminds me of any stuff I have downloaded, rejected, and forgotten to remove,

and when I have a lean clean machine I do the backup image and restore to the comparison partition etc.

 

I cannot guarantee that a backup image will always restore a bootable system,

but once I have proven the compatibility of the technology with my hardware,

and have spare CD's and spare images, my fears disappear.

 

The only thing that I could wish for would be an omission of all the Hewlett Packard Printer Rubbish ! ! !

I rarely need to print.

Only once in 6 years have I used the scanner because it was available.

That saved me the 10 pence the local shop would have charged for making a xerox copy of a legal document ! ! !

Never ever at any time will I allow H.P. to "Share on the Web"

I have now identified a critical "Share ..." executable and changed its extension so it cannot run,

and I am pleasantly surprised that although the H.P. Installation Disc may be requested when I print,

I am able to proceed without using the disc - I can even scan if I wish.

 

regards

Alan

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@Tigerllc74 Please note that PM's are for messages that need to be private (such as the link I provided) please keep all public based conversation type things out of PMs esp since most members and moderators (ESP me) will not reply to Non-PM worthy items in PMs. (I've stated the same in the PM you sent me).

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@Tigerllc74 Please note that PM's are for messages that need to be private (such as the link I provided) please keep all public based conversation type things out of PMs esp since most members and moderators (ESP me) will not reply to Non-PM worthy items in PMs. (I've stated the same in the PM you sent me).

 

Yep, and another good reason I guess is that everyone can benefit, as Alan_B said, from an open post. I learned a lot from his.

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Some useful information to add to what's gone before. Some of you might already be aware of this stuff, but I'm sure some of you won't be.

 

Firstly, you can of course restore a Macrium Image (Free Version) onto a new hard drive, although there's more than one way to do it.

 

Using the Macrium Rescue CD:

 

This method has the limitation of being able to restore only one partition at a time. If you have more than one partition on your system drive this is time taking and not as straightforward as other methods.

 

If the new drive is larger than the old one, then you are given the option via a manually controlled "slider", to enlarge the Imaged partition to anything between it's original size, and the size of the new hard drive.

 

If you have more than one partition to restore, I can't find a definitive answer as to whether restored partitions will be contiguous with each other, as on the old hard drive.

 

 

Using a BartPE Rescue CD:

 

Similar to the Rescue CD if your BartPE has a Macrium Plugin and you elect to use it, i.e. it's only able to restore one partition at a time, with the added complication of having to decide as to whether you should resize each partition to fit the new drive etc..

 

The above two methods have an unknown quantity to them for me with the resizing issue. I would have to bite the bullet and simply follow the process and see what transpires as that process pans out. Although I'm guessing it would pan out OK.

 

Only one partition can be selected using the Rescue CD or the BartPE Macrium Plugin:

 

 

 

 

Using a BartPE CD, or probably any other bootable rescue CD, with "Macrium DiskRestore":

 

This is the most interesting thing I've found while researching this. "Macrium DiskRestore" is a 2.39mb standalone executable which has the ability to ...

 

... "Restore Multiple partitions (whole disks) at the same time. Partition placement on the new hard drive is exactly the same as the original Imaged disk".

 

So this way is simplicity itself, with the resizing issues being taken out of the equation.

 

The remaining space on the new hard drive is I think left as "unallocated space", to be used/partitioned as you see fit.

 

"Macrium DiskRestore", being a completely independent standalone executable, can be placed on the same external hard drive as your Image should you only have the new hard drive in your computer after having removed the old one, and can be launched by BartPE or other similar rescue packages, to restore that external Image to the new hard drive.

 

All partitions (two in this case) can be selected using the "Macrium DiskRestore" tool:

 

 

 

 

The following links describe all of the above in much greater detail, and one of them is a first class tutorial covering the initial installing of Macrium, making a "clone" of your old hard drive, right through to the various ways of restoring that Image to the same or a new hard drive.

 

How-To: Clone Windows Hard Drive with Macrium Reflect:

 

Parts two and three of the tutorial are accessed from the links on the right.

 

 

Macrium Reflect DiskRestore: (Description and download.)

 

Exchange system drive with bigger disk: (From Macrium Support Forum.)

 

Is it possible to restore image to larger drive?: (From Macrium Support Forum.)

 

 

There are still a couple of unknowns for me in the above, such as restoring a multi partitioned Image one partition at a time, and whether to resize or not, and I think that would only become clear by actually doing it.

 

But if you have an Image which contains only the system drive, and want it to fit the new hard drive exactly, then using the Macrium Rescue CD or BartPE with a Macrium Plugin would be straightforward.

 

The other unknown is whether it's necessary to make a "Clone" of your system drive, or whether an "Intelligent Sector Copy" would work just as well. I need to find an answer to that one.

 

IMPORTANT:

 

You simply must not change any hardware on your computer between making the original Macrium Image and restoring it to a new hard drive. Any changes made to the architecture of your computer during this time will more than likely cause a failed restore.

 

 

Bear in mind this is not supposed to be the definitive guide to restoring Macrium Images to new hard drives and if you guys see anything above which doesn't make sense, or seems to have a hole in it, then either ask, or do some googling yourself. I'll try to answer any questions with what I know, and if I'm not sure, I'll tell you go google, or I might be even less polite than that. :)

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Tiger, I've taken the liberty of adding "Macrium" to the topic title.

 

It's about Macrium, and that change might attract more members to either contribute, or maybe benefit from new information which they would otherwise miss in your thread.

 

Non members as well may benefit of course.

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Thanks all for the comments. My expertise on this subject is very elementary and I simply must trust what has been posted.

When all is said and done, simple question still persists...

Do I need Factory recovery disc ???? Yes or no.

I just tried to restore Macrium and Easeus image onto NEW HD (same size and larger HD than original). Two failed and one succeeded. I have no idea why or why not. I don't know about Clone ???

 

So for my money, I will pay extra $20 or so for Factory recovery disc...just in case (???)

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You simply must not change any hardware on your computer between making the original Macrium Image and restoring it to a new hard drive. Any changes made to the architecture of your computer during this time will more than likely cause a failed restore.

That's why I made a new main image today after replacing one of my DVDRW drives, I didn't want to chance it causing any issues.

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The question was raised about Macrium Reflect Image and dead HD..then CLone issue too...

 

Say..HD is dead. Can you restore Marcrium Image to NEW HD (different brand and/or different size..smaller or larger) ??? I don't think this is possible.

 

So Clone question comes up. (Macrium does NOT do Clone) IF I made a Clone file then I can restore Clone file onto NEW HD...Am I correct ??

Now Image files are smaller than Clone. My 80GB HD with 20GB data..image file is only 16GB. But Clone maybe entire 80GB in file size.

 

Also, (correct me if I am wrong)...Image or Clone is the content of entire HD, so it is same as using Factory Recovery disc plus extra datas..including OS. Therefore no need for factory recovery disc at all... Is this correct ?? I think so.

Thanks,

Tiger

 

A clone is an exact copy of your hard drive size wise including all unused space etc..

 

First point highlighted: Macrium does do clone:

 

 

 

 

 

Second Point highlighted: A restored Macrium Image is nothing like a reinstall with windows disks.

 

One is a copy of your hard drive as it is now with all programs you've installed yourself, music, photographs, microsoft updates, and updates to any of the original software which may still be on your computer And probably some other things I can't even think of at the moment. The Image is also a data backup, as you can mount it as a drive to copy out things like music and photographs.

 

The reinstall from disks is taking your computer back to the day you bought it, which may be 6 months ago or 6 years. You are taken that far back in time, and therefore would have to redo everything that's happened during that time that you don't want to lose. And backup all your personal data (music etc.). It really goes without saying that there is a huge gulf between the two.

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Thanks all for the comments. My expertise on this subject is very elementary and I simply must trust what has been posted.

When all is said and done, simple question still persists...

Do I need Factory recovery disc ???? Yes or no.

I just tried to restore Macrium and Easeus image onto NEW HD (same size and larger HD than original). Two failed and one succeeded. I have no idea why or why not. I don't know about Clone ???

 

So for my money, I will pay extra $20 or so for Factory recovery disc...just in case (???)

 

Firstly, it's not a case of trusting what's posted as none of us are experts on making and restoring Macrium Images, and trusting the information posted is really putting the responsibility of failure onto the shoulders of the poster.

 

The information above is information gained from personal use, and spending a lot of time researching, and is intended to help someone with a problem, not provide a foolproof, 100% "certain to work" guide.

 

Every single computer is different from everyone else's, and what may run sweetly on one may cause problems on another. All you can do is educate yourself as much as you can about the process you're gonna attempt, and then decide yourself whether you want to do it or not.

 

Whether you need factory disks or not has to be your decision. I don't have factory disks or a Recovery Partition anymore, so I have no way of recovering other than backup Images.

 

Personally, I would spend 20 dollars on Windows disks if Macrium Images were failing for whatever reason. For me, they have always worked perfectly so I haven't.

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Thanks Dennis...

I think people are missing the essence of my question...thus never answered yes or no.

I respect and really appreciate all the inputs..Just like anything in life certain things I trust to experts and weekend interest groups, I simply benefit from and TRUST their experiences.

 

Of course factory disc will not restore programs and data installed, but if image/clone does not restore OS then well....screwed !!!! So why take the chance. For $20, it seems like a good insurance to me.

 

The ULTIMATE (100%) protection for HD crash or changing HD for whatever the reason seems to be Factory Recovery disc, and NOT image/clone. Sure image/clone will sometimes restore, but not 100% sure. I think most of us never experienced the ULTIMATE failed situation (HD dead, hardware conflicts, etc), so my kind of question draws many "opinion" replies.

 

I was not really interested in details of how image/clone works, or what Macrium or other programs does. (sure nice to know) Consider my question like a buying a car, I just wanna drive a good solid car,,don't really care to know the detail..but I do need to know how to put gas and change oil, etc...

 

So the final analysis for me, based on the discussion, is PAY extra $20 and be 100% sure just in case ????

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Yes the disc image will restore the os it will make the new hard disc exactly like the old one.

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So the final analysis for me, based on the discussion, is PAY extra $20 and be 100% sure just in case ????

 

If I kept getting failed restores with Images, and couldn't pinpoint why, I would definitely spend 20 dollars on windows disks.

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One more thing is the time involved.

 

I just reinstalled wxp home from the factory disks. Took the better part of 2 days. About a hundred microsoft updates (those were all since SP3) took most of a day.

 

A good image would have taken under an hour, and would have already had all that stuff in it.

 

So one approach is to get the factory install disks, get your system set up to suit you, then make an image of it.

 

Then, if you have a hardware failure, as stated before, make a new image after you get back up and running.

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Again...when images and clones work..life is good. BUT when 1% of time (for whatever the reason) it doesn't work, then what ???

$20 for Factory disc is a good insurance. I think the uncertainly enters when HD is changed.

 

When one makes image/clone files, nobody REALLY REALLY knows IF it will work 100% of time.. even sellers will not stand 100%.

I trust image files, and used them several times. But having factory disc (only had to buy one factory disc out of 12 laptops in last 5+yrs) makes me sleep better.

 

It has been fun learning session for me...Thanks to all

Tiger

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Of course factory disc will not restore programs and data installed, but if image/clone does not restore OS then well....screwed !!!! So why take the chance. For $20, it seems like a good insurance to me.

 

With all due respect that appears to be foolish.

 

If a nice kind insurance company is prepared to rebuild my house when I pay them a $20 premium AFTER it is burnt down,

then no one would pay insurance premiums in advance of disaster.

 

Why can you not WAIT for unrecoverable disaster before spending $20 ?

 

I just tried to restore Macrium and Easeus image onto NEW HD (same size and larger HD than original). Two failed and one succeeded. I have no idea why or why not. I don't know about Clone ???

 

What is a failure ?

Did the Boot CD's succeed in reading from the image file and writing to the HDD without any errors ?

Was there any indication or warning that would suggest a problem ?

Was everything perfect apart from the inability to Boot Up ?

 

I guess you were not trying hard enough !

You ask about Clone. That is another Macrium option you could have tried.

 

What do you mean by "same size and larger HD" ?

Does this mean you have more than one HDD ?

 

Did you try both the Linux and the BartPE BOOT discs from Macrium ?

Did the BartPE create perfectly without any errors or warnings ?

 

Assuming that Easeus provides at least one flavour of Boot CD,

then the absolute minimum number of BOOT CD's to test is 3,

so 2 fails + 1 Success indicates at least one works, and the other failures are not relevant.

 

Are you really sure that your new HDD is reliable and fully compatible with the rest of your computer,

including not just the hardware but also the software drivers ?

 

Alan

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Alan:

I think you are starting to beat a dead horse. There are many options in life and we are free to choose as we wish based on what we find as facts.

Also, some of us are not as qualified as you and we simply want quick and easy options. Personally, I really don't wanna know how image/clone works in detail. It gives me a headache and I have other interest that occupies me. Thus I trust experts like you..I am grateful, don't get me wrong.

Because I asked, now I know my options.

I am grateful for forum members who can give me technical help when I ask since I don't keep up with fine details.

Tiger

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