Microsoft continues trying to kill XP

[MikeW]

You are already wrong on that one. Windows 7 is doing very well and is blowing away Vista at this point in Vista's release.

 

 

As for the rest of the comments on not upgrading from XP. I am reading a lot of excuses for staying with XP and I don't buy any of them. Having said that it's your choice so do what you want. One thing I know for sure is that sooner or later you are going to update from XP weather you like it or not or you will simply be left behind. Your computers will die or something else will happen but you will need to upgrade at some point. In the mean time you fall further behind in knowledge and I don't see how that benefits you in any way. Most of you have an interest in computers or you wouldn't be on this forum. You will be of less and less help as time goes on. You already can't be helpful with Vista or W7 questions and by the sounds of it you will stay with XP even after W8 comes out so you won't be any help with that either. You can't be into computers and not keep up it doesn't make sense.

 

Once again you just keep beating the same point of view to death.

The vast majority of pc users just want their favourite program to work, and really dont care what the operating system is called or how it works.

 

Like Dennis I will continue to use XP. If I should choose to buy a new machine in the near future then I would have XP installed. My local dealer tells me he is still selling more XP maxhines than anything else.

[Aethec]

I'm on XP, [...]

 

You'll have to backup all your data regularly when MS drops XP support, and have an installation disk ready, since even one flaw after the 2014 deadline means all the remaining XP computers could be infected

 

However, specifically asking for XP if you buy a new, modern machine is ridiculous. It's like buying a Ferrari if you hardly know how to drive.

[Anomaly]

Once again you just keep beating the same point of view to death.

The vast majority of pc users just want their favourite program to work, and really dont care what the operating system is called or how it works.

 

Like Dennis I will continue to use XP. If I should choose to buy a new machine in the near future then I would have XP installed. My local dealer tells me he is still selling more XP maxhines than anything else.

The fact that your local dealer sells more XP machines than anything else means absolutely nothing. Just means there are a lot of people like you that can't leave the past. Doesn't mean anything more than that.

 

MS is some Deep crap if they have to rely on a customer base stuck in the past. Customers who refuse to improve. Sooner or later MS will have to kick those customers to the curb for the sake of the company. They need to kill XP off and cut the umbilical cord and stop coddling people stuck in the past. It holds all of us back.

[Anomaly]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not really true. I learned most of what I know about XP and Operating Systems in general from the members on this forum over the last 4 years. By asking questions and taking notes, and by using good old google.

 

I learned very little by "peeking under the hood" so to speak, and some of us are here more for the community than an interest in computers. My PC is simply a means to a number of ends, one of them being to lend a hand to folk with problems in the same way members on here helped me when I first joined.

 

It's not about the computer.

 

 

 

I'll muddle through with google and picking peoples brains.

 

 

 

Again, I'll muddle through by doing a bit research. I'm pretty sure I can learn more from google than I could from actually having a Win7 OS at my finger tips.

 

A perfectly running computer loaded with Win7 doesn't help at all in solving the problems people come here with.

 

Having a smooth running computer with XP has never aided me in finding a solution for folk having a problem with XP. You have to find the relative information needed by tracking down others who've experienced that problem, and have a solution.

 

Not always easy, but the answers are usually out their somewhere, and definitely not under my desk.

 

 

 

Once again the assumption that "keeping up" is a necessity. For me "keeping up" doesn't even come into the equation.

 

I'm one of those lucky people not afflicted by the "keeping up" thing.

 

 

Wow. I don't quite know what to make of the logic in those statements.

 

Imagine going to a Dr and the guy tells you he feels no need to keep up with new procedures or technology. He feels using Google will do. I don't think that Dr will be working on me any time soon. Imagine a mechanic who refuses to keep on the newest tech. Imagine any profession doing that. No amount of reading or Googling can beat experience.

 

 

 

There is no way you or anybody else is going to be as able as a person that uses Windows 7. You can Google all you want but if have no experience with the OS you are not knowledgeable about it period.

 

 

It's not about needing to keep up. It's about acknowledging that time goes by and things improve. It's called progress. It's in every aspect of your life not just computers. You can choose to progress with the rest of the world or stay put in the past waiting to die off with all the other obsolete things. I choose to progress. Not just with computers but in every aspect of my life.

 

 

I think Mr G or who ever runs this forum should make it mandatory for mods to be up to date when it comes OS's or computers in general. Imagine going to the Mozilla forums and the mods there were still using Firefox 1. It makes no sense. If some one wants to keep using obsolete software than thats their right but when you are a mod or in some other official capacity on a tech forum it makes no sense to be resistant to progress. It's a massive conflict of interest. Computers are all about progress. They are all about the future. They are the biggest thing in human progress in history. They are in every aspect of life now. You progress or die off.

[Anomaly]

If firefox does kill it off, there is always Opera, Google Chrome, Safari, etc. So many choices.

 

Plus, a lot of installers merely block you from installing based on the OS you have. The support is still there in many cases, they just use a script to block you from installing it.

 

A simple install to the updated machine, copy to the older, back in business. Easier still, UniExtract can extract installer files in most cases...

 

You just have to know the tricks they pull. Kind of deceptive to claim "it no longer is supported" when all they really do a lot of times is simply block it's use on an older machine at the install level. Install Shield & other companies support these kinds of tech.

 

You sure are willing to jump through a bunch of hoops to keep using a obsolete OS. Why didn't you do that with Windows 95 or 98?

[Rorschach112]

I think Mr G or who ever runs this forum should make it mandatory for Mods to be up to date when it comes OS's or computers in general.

What are you on about ? Without being rude to you, that is such a ridiculous and funny idea. Mods aren't picked by how much of an expert they are with windows here or at most forums, while it does help, its hardly the decisive factor when it comes to promoting people. How would such an idea even be policed, if a new version of windows comes out do mods get demoted if they don't become experts concerning it ? Do we get a weekly written test ?

 

 

My computer knowledge is pretty average, especially when it comes to the tech side of things, but I'm a mod here and at a lot of other forums. I'd like to think its cause I've got a sensible head on my shoulders, am a good poster, know the rules, and make a solid contribution. From what I've seen, people are promoted to mods if they make a good contribution to the site, whether they are "experts" or not.

[ishan_rulz]

Wow. I don't quite know what to make of the logic in those statements.

 

Imagine going to a Dr and the guy tells you he feels no need to keep up with new procedures or technology. He feels using Google will do. I don't think that Dr will be working on me any time soon. Imagine a mechanic who refuses to keep on the newest tech. Imagine any profession doing that. No amount of reading or Googling can beat experience.

 

 

 

There is no way you or anybody else is going to be as able as a person that uses Windows 7. You can Google all you want but if have no experience with the OS you are not knowledgeable about it period.

 

 

It's not about needing to keep up. It's about acknowledging that time goes by and things improve. It's called progress. It's in every aspect of your life not just computers. You can choose to progress with the rest of the world or stay put in the past waiting to die off with all the other obsolete things. I choose to progress. Not just with computers but in every aspect of my life.

 

 

I think Mr G or who ever runs this forum should make it mandatory for mods to be up to date when it comes OS's or computers in general. Imagine going to the Mozilla forums and the mods there were still using Firefox 1. It makes no sense. If some one wants to keep using obsolete software than thats their right but when you are a mod or in some other official capacity on a tech forum it makes no sense to be resistant to progress. It's a massive conflict of interest. Computers are all about progress. They are all about the future. They are the biggest thing in human progress in history. They are in every aspect of life now. You progress or die off.

 

I have to agree with Dennis and Rorschach112. Even though I use Se7en and love it way more than XP. It is THEIR choice; XP does everything they need and require. Why upgrade when not required?! I upgraded because of the good reviews, and I love "new"... otherwise I'm sure I'd have stayed back.

 

Plus, necessity for the Mods (only?) to keep your OS upgraded? That's Nazi. That's as good as making CCleaner only work for the latest OSs.

[Andavari]

I think Mr G or who ever runs this forum should make it mandatory for mods to be up to date when it comes OS's or computers in general.

 

I have to tell you this is one of the silliest points you've made so far with your constant bickering against XP users, laughable really.

[hazelnut]

 

 

I think Mr G or who ever runs this forum should make it mandatory for mods to be up to date when it comes OS's or computers in general. Imagine going to the Mozilla forums and the mods there were still using Firefox 1. It makes no sense. If some one wants to keep using obsolete software than thats their right but when you are a mod or in some other official capacity on a tech forum it makes no sense to be resistant to progress. It's a massive conflict of interest. Computers are all about progress. They are all about the future. They are the biggest thing in human progress in history. They are in every aspect of life now. You progress or die off.

 

I'll tell you what Anomaly, I think it's about time you had time to think about your attitude here on the forum. So I'll give you 3 days thinking time before you can post again.

 

You seem to be in a constant need to conflict with anything that gets said on the forum by any member. People don't want that kind of unpleasantness when they come here.

 

Take 3 days out to think about things.

[Winapp2.ini]

This thread digressed quite a bit.

[slowday444]

So is Mr. Anomaly some sort of operating system cop or something? No wait...OS dictator perhaps?

[hazelnut]

Right back on topic now guys please

[DennisD]

 

 

I think Mr G or who ever runs this forum should make it mandatory for mods to be up to date when it comes OS's or computers in general.

 

 

That's one of the best ones I've heard in a while.

 

Why on earth do you take it all so seriously? It's a bit of friendly banter between folk with differing opinions.

 

Leastways it usually is.

 

And back onto topic.

 

I didn't see your post hazel.

[ishan_rulz]

This thread digressed quite a bit.

That emoticon goes really well with what you wrote.

[Aethec]

I wonder what will be in Office 15. I doubt they'll support XP, but I also doubt they'll simply add some D2D animations like they did with Live Messenger...

[DJpailo]

XP is becoming like IE6 with everyone still expecting support for it. Nearly 10 years of support for an OS. You have to hand it to Microsoft there.

[ishan_rulz]

Correct, XP is becoming like IE6.

[mr don]

You'll have to backup all your data regularly when MS drops XP support, and have an installation disk ready, since even one flaw after the 2014 deadline means all the remaining XP computers could be infected

 

However, specifically asking for XP if you buy a new, modern machine is ridiculous. It's like buying a Ferrari if you hardly know how to drive.

 

Are you really trying to say Microsoft isn't a virus? LOL! Microsoft has never been secure! Every week, there is always holes, bugs, bad driver blue screens, holes in the patches that have to be fixed (patch to fix patches), buffer overrun vulnerabilities.

 

I have never known MS OS not to have bugs.

 

Of course, 95% of the problems is the bug called IE. Using Internet Explorer exposes your pc to drive by downloads (malware? scareware? fake av? popups? etc)

 

Just use Firefox & you won't have to worry about fixing the malware that can't get installed in the first place! In working on computers, just switching users to Firefox with the reason why cut my calls about malware down to 5% of the normal calls. You do have to spend a few minutes to educate them on types of web dangers, what to watch out for, but it is worth it.

 

Internet Explorer users are just asking to be tormented with any number of problems.

 

Use a good firewall, antivirus, & DON'T EVER use Internet Explorer!

[mr don]

I wonder what will be in Office 15. I doubt they'll support XP, but I also doubt they'll simply add some D2D animations like they did with Live Messenger...

 

What possibly could be different about Office 15, anyway? Faster? No! Smaller? No! More DRM? YES!

 

What could you possibly do besides word, outlook, powerpoint, excell, access, etc, etc, etc?

 

I don't see the point of endlessly upgrading to Office 12, 13, 14, 19, 235... No new features? Slower? What good is it then?

 

Sure, the older XP is well, older, but it is stable, faster than 7 for sure, & 7 just can't hang with XP on useability because 7 on a default install has the wait to kill hung app timer waaaaay too short. Some applications get killed before they even get to load to the first prompt!

 

As well as numerous other bugs in 7. I hand it to Microsoft. 7 really does do better than Vista, but that is not saying that much because Vista has serious bugs & flaws. I tested Vista & had problems on copying certain things that XP plowed through with no errors or problems at all. I was testing direct flash drive to MP3 player among other file operations to see how Vista handled it & I was like, wow! I can't believe they really released this garbage!

 

7 does do better than Vista, & is perhaps better looking, but I would rather have something that I can get things done on like XP any day than a dinosaur behemoth 4 something GB install of 7 that just looks better while running slower & hindering production. The point of computing is not to waste corporate dollars on sitting there looking pretty but on actually:

 

- Working, not killing off your app because it is "hung" simply because the kill timer is too short!

- Getting work done faster to save $$$, not looking all glassy & pretty.

 

Sure I know these effects can be turned off, but I have a machine that is pretty fast with several gigs of high speed ram, & even with visual effects turned off on 7, XP just can't be beat for getting things done!

 

Besides, try searching for files on your flash drive in 7, or comparing the way the start menu is in 7 to XP & it takes more steps to launch, not less. Yes, I can type last time I tested my average type speed at around 100 WPM, but why do I want to waste time doing that? 7 sometimes shows results that are nothing related to what you are looking, doesn't show you all the results but a top listing of the most likely, & sometimes just doesn't launch the right thing! External searches? Try running around the house a few times & tying your garden hose in knots, then running back around to the back door again & then you get an idea of the pain 7 puts you through to try to see all the files on your drive.

 

I do not know how much testing you have done, but Windows Vista & 7 have files they will not show you while XP will show you all files. Even turning on the show system files, or letting you see protected operating system files in Vista or 7 is a joke because some files, it never shows you at all!

 

I was trying to view some files on a game directory where it saved the user game data on Vista & it never would show me that folder, but only the game itself! I had a problem with certain hidden Spybot Search & Destroy files not showing either, especially the one marked as a system file called SD.exe!

 

XP doesn't have this problem!

 

My question back to you is, so again, why do I want a newer, slower OS that looks prettier while becoming more equivalent to a brick (not less) complete with enhanced digital rights management to spy on me, trusted computing platform to control what I copy or do, & all the while taking a lot longer to do it than XP? Sure you can turn off 7 services, & 7 appearance thingies to "performance mode" but it still ain't as fast as XP!

 

Why do I want newer/slower?

[mr don]

Wow. I don't quite know what to make of the logic in those statements.

 

Imagine going to a Dr and the guy tells you he feels no need to keep up with new procedures or technology. He feels using Google will do. I don't think that Dr will be working on me any time soon. Imagine a mechanic who refuses to keep on the newest tech. Imagine any profession doing that. No amount of reading or Googling can beat experience.

 

 

 

There is no way you or anybody else is going to be as able as a person that uses Windows 7. You can Google all you want but if have no experience with the OS you are not knowledgeable about it period.

 

 

It's not about needing to keep up. It's about acknowledging that time goes by and things improve. It's called progress. It's in every aspect of your life not just computers. You can choose to progress with the rest of the world or stay put in the past waiting to die off with all the other obsolete things. I choose to progress. Not just with computers but in every aspect of my life.

 

 

I think Mr G or who ever runs this forum should make it mandatory for mods to be up to date when it comes OS's or computers in general. Imagine going to the Mozilla forums and the mods there were still using Firefox 1. It makes no sense. If some one wants to keep using obsolete software than thats their right but when you are a mod or in some other official capacity on a tech forum it makes no sense to be resistant to progress. It's a massive conflict of interest. Computers are all about progress. They are all about the future. They are the biggest thing in human progress in history. They are in every aspect of life now. You progress or die off.

 

 

That is the trouble with the "newer" OS, Anomaly. It simply is going backwards into technology, not forward. Anytime you release an OS that is newer, bigger, prettier, slower than your predecessor, & doesn't do anything more, you are going backwards, not forwards.

 

There is nothing 7 can do that XP cannot do faster, better, save more $$$. How is 7 saving more $$$ for business when it runs so much slower?

 

I don't get your logic. 7 is newer, therefore it is better? For one thing, in Vista, it has errors cloning files from one MP3 player to a flash drive while XP doesn't. I can elaborate if you need me to, but I am trying to keep this short for the sake of making this readable.

 

This is only one of the many bugs & flaws in the dinosaur Vista that the people killed off by not buying from MS in droves. Windows 7 is much improved over Vista, but it still has terrible bugs, like the wait to kill application timer will kill some applications off in like, 2 seconds after you click them, give you an error that they were hung & could not load, & auto kill them off with no second chance for your program.

 

Is it really going forward in usability when you have to hack the registry key for hung application timer settings in order to make it work when they just worked in XP & faster too? No!

 

I can see using newer & better tech/machines/methods when they work, but 7 is going backwards.

 

Tell me again how slower = more money in company pockets?

[Talldog9]

I haven't read all the new replies yet(Wow!), but Microsoft should really consider marketing MinWin. Sell & distribute it with most components enabled andusers can disable any to create the perfect OS for them not what MS thinks they need.Windows 7 would sell perfectly and be adopted perfectly if it was perfectly optimized and such. Concerns of hardware power would disappear as the minimum reqs would drop to around Win95 AT LEAST. For everything new Microsoft OSs do they could and should do it with less resources than XP used. Businesses, gpovernments and schools would upgrade without a thought (excluding other issues) and old decrepid machines would still be useful if not much more.

 

Never will MS do this because affiliate hardware sales would not skyrocket.

 

Unfortunately Microsoft is a typical greedy big business who cares not about consumers but about other big businesses who give them money and about saving face. $$$ is the thing MS cares about not people who give them it.

 

Despite any sucess Win 7 has Win 8 is more likely to gain as people who didn't want to run 7 are finally forced to update. Are they going to use a then old OS? 8 will be here so soon it is not logical for a non-richie to buy a new machine or make any accomodations for 7 just to update. Wait for 8. 7 will soon be forgotten as microsoft OSs become a dime a dozen.

 

Tghat said some of my Xp machines will continue to use XP well into the forseeable future. So long as the mobos don't give up at least. Great airflow will help increase their lifetimes.

[mr don]

And so they should Its insecure (biggest problem with using it), uses a bunch of deprecated technologies and basically, the ecosystem just needs to move onto better things.

 

Windows media foundation, direct compute, all those kernel changes up to Win 7 / Server 2008 R2. I could go on and on, but the point is clear - XP is deprecated legacy code.

 

Null, as "advanced" as Windows 7 is, with the Win FS layered on top of still more deprecated code. (They never seem to break clean, just layer one service on top of another), I don't see your point with breaking clean.

 

Windows 7 is newer than XP, but XP runs more programs better & faster, saving companies $$$. How is slower better?

Windows 7 media player is definitely newer than some media players out, but KM Player, Gom Player, VLC Player & many others play files that Windows Media Player just cannot handle!

Windows 7 search is newer perhaps, but locate32 still trounces 7's search utility by the speed of search (10's of thousands of files instantly located for perusing, while 7 doesn't show all of them without some serious tweaking) Locate 32 also allows you to search for files containing text, so I was able to use that feature to find out where MS arcade games saved my name during setup from floppies. Too bad 7 doesn't do this! 7 also hides certain system files, even with show all files, super hidden files etc checked.

 

Well, but then 7 is newer, after all, so who am I to really complain about all the free DRM, TCP, wait to kill timer being too short, etc?

 

At this rate of astounding progress, it won't be long before people have terrabyte sized OS installs, nightmares fixing windows, tons of things that won't work (or if they do, not properly).

 

When I hear people like you pose, it just goes through my head... MS fanboy, shill, etc, lol! Gotta have the latest? Keep up with the Joneses eh? I had friends who had to have the latest ipods. I keep hoping people like you will recognize one day that simply updating to the latest isn't always in your best interest. Microsoft will, of course, push stuff out there trying to sell it, but they are having a harder time because in Win 95, GUI was awful + crashes etc. Win 98 improved a bit, but still had cross linked files from not running things in seperate memory spaces, 4 gb file size limits, etc, Win Me improved the looks but crashed more, XP was truly stable, fast, easy, worked.

 

Once that happend, a revolution happened. People realized, hey! If I have an OS that does all I want or need it to do, why do I need to upgrade every year to programs who are bigger, slower, & don't even do all I need it to? Up to you man, but always trying to buy, buy, buy helps line the pockets of MS with more Gold. It really isn't necessary since anything you wanna do in 7, you can already do it in XP faster, better.

 

- Visual Style - Royal (Media Center)

- Browser - Firefox

- Firewall - XP firewall (for now)

- Antivirus - AVG

- System search - Locate32

- Office - Abiword, Notes++, Open Office, etc

- Cleaner - CCleaner, DCleaner, FCleaner, Privacy Mantra, AFT, etc (I am testing a lot of files, so, yes, yes, yes!)

- Sidebar (Not using, but google sidebar is exactly like that in Vista/7)

- Startup - Nirsoft Startup

- Hosts checker - Abelha Digital

 

I have too many to list here. I have notes programs, audio conversion/playing/creation etc programs, video create/edit/view, image create/convert/edit/view, unrar files such as extract now that handle multiple content types plus passwords.

 

I seriously doubt there will ever be critical files that I do not have a replacement for that is free/open source & works better/faster than stuff in 7. If you can think of things 7 can do that really apply to business & does it faster/better than XP, let me know, but from what I have seen/used of 7, it is just bloatcode & slower to boot!

[Nullack]

Your right buddy, there is still lots of code in Win 7 thats old. Actually, there is over 60 million lines of code in it and some remains from NT 4

 

I run Linux, and Windows, so I'm not blind to the problems with the Windows platform. However, if people were to go and read a book like Russovich's latest Windows Internals book it would give some insight into how core Windows has changed so much since XP. It really is better in terms of security, compatability, extensibility. With performance, in some areas it is faster than XP. In other areas, XP simply does not have the features like direct compute. GPGPU is going to have a huge impact on the ecosystem. XP is the last microsoft OS that was developed prior to the Secure Development Lifecycle, and as such, is pretty crappy from a security point of compared to post SDC OS's from MS. And besides, the XP architecture is simply wrong and was changed for 2008 server / Vista for good reasons.

 

To say, "oh Im a user and I dont care about the OS" is all fine until there is an OS related problem that prevents the user from doing what they want.

 

Besides mate, with legacy OS's like XP you cant run cool hardware like my latest toy below:

 

[Talldog9]

NT is now DOS. Time to dump it.

[login123]

Right back on topic now guys please

 

Now, lets see...what was that topic...Ahhh yes, Microsoft continues trying to kill xp.

 

For better or worse, XP will become obsolete...IMO. >Sniff< It's a good'un, maybe W7 will be better.

 

Maybe we should give the moderators a rest, so they can study for their tests.