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Restore points


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#1 OFFLINE Pat-2

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 12:16 PM

Hello,

Problem found with the last 1.20 version, and still with the new V 2.00.230 64 bits.
Configuration : Win 7 Home 64 bits.
After defrag operation on the system disk ( c: ) - 8% of total fragmentation -, I did found out that ALL the restore points were gone !
Including the last one ( the most recent, which is normaly impossible to remove ).
It really sounds like bad news.

Pat-2

#2 OFFLINE kroozer

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 08:26 PM

Sys Restore is so flaky, I've lost all my points simply by cold booting in the morning.

Try this: Disable, then restart System Restore. Make some restore points. Reboot and run Defraggler again and see what happens. Report back if you lost them again.

#3 OFFLINE henryhor

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 06:09 AM

Same here. Lost all my restore points yesterday. Win 7 Pro. Defraggler V 2.00.230 64 bits.

#4 OFFLINE Pat-2

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 09:47 AM

Hi,

I already tried your suggestion prior to my yesterday post.
But the result is the same.

In addition to this, I watched the defrag process while reaching its end(99%), and strangly the area containning the restore points files became flicky and blinked when the process arrived at 100%. Right after this, the overall area disapeared ( no more little blue colored squares )!!!! Which means no more restore points.

Pat-2

Second shot :

I tried to defrag via "selected files to defrag" rather than "full defrag".
Result : no lost of restore points.
Hope it will help for debugging.

Pat-2

#5 OFFLINE kroozer

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 02:35 PM

I tried to defrag via "selected files to defrag" rather than "full defrag".
Result : no lost of restore points.

Thanks for reporting back with the details and that you've had no trouble with file-only defrag, which is what I use.

I haven't done a full defrag in ages because for me, file-only defrag is fast and sufficient. :)

#6 OFFLINE Pat-2

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 06:18 AM

Thanks for reporting back with the details and that you've had no trouble with file-only defrag, which is what I use.

I haven't done a full defrag in ages because for me, file-only defrag is fast and sufficient. :)


Hello,

What will be the next step now ?

Pat-2

#7 OFFLINE henryhor

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 08:18 AM

Excluding c:\system volume information in defraggler's options seems to solve the problem.

Just for information : Auslogics Disk Defrag also kills the restore points on my computer.

#8 OFFLINE Pat-2

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 10:13 AM

Excluding c:\system volume information in defraggler's options seems to solve the problem.

Just for information : Auslogics Disk Defrag also kills the restore points on my computer.


Hi,

Sounds good as an alternative solution for the time being, but what's underneath that behavior !

Pat-2

#9 OFFLINE henryhor

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 11:30 AM

Well, all I can say is that sys vol inf is hidden and protected (one must first unhide it in folder properties to exclude it from defrag). Maybe protected stuff doesn't like to be defraggled :)

#10 OFFLINE Pat-2

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 10:49 AM

Well, all I can say is that sys vol inf is hidden and protected (one must first unhide it in folder properties to exclude it from defrag). Maybe protected stuff doesn't like to be defraggled :)


Hi,

Well, note that with Win XP Pro the problem doesn't exist ! I don't have Vista, so I can't verify; does anyone have experienced the bug with Win 7 - 32 bits ?

Pat-2

#11 OFFLINE Pat-2

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 08:18 AM

Hi,

Sounds good as an alternative solution for the time being, but what's underneath that behavior !

Pat-2


Hi,

I'm back on the same subject.
Even when excluding "restore points files" from the defrag process, the program does eliminate some of them on a ramdom base ( the last 3 ones were more lucky ).... !!!!!
Gee ! What a mess !
Can we expect PIRIFORM to fix this ?

Pat-2

#12 OFFLINE drhappy

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 05:01 PM

i've experienced demolished restore points as well using defraggler 2.00.230 on both windows xp pro sp3 (32-bit) and windows 7 home premium (64-bit)

wish i had checked the forums before i ran it!

#13 OFFLINE Nergal

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 05:58 PM

any sort of defragmenting will do this if you run up against the freespace required for restore points
ADVICE FOR USING CCleaner'S REGISTRY INTEGRITY SECTION
DON'T JUST CLEAN EVERYTHING THAT'S CHECKED OFF.
Do your Registry Cleaning in small bits (at the very least Check-mark by Check-mark)
ALWAYS BACKUP THE ENTRY, YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT YOU'LL BREAK IF YOU DON'T.
CCLEANER, RECUVA, DEFRAGGLER AND SPECCY DOCUMENTATION CAN BE FOUND AT www.piriform.com/docs
Link to Winapp2.ini explanation

#14 OFFLINE MrRon

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 08:05 AM

This is a feature of Windows, not a bug in Defraggler. Volume Shadow Copy creates new restore points whilst the defrag is happening. When the amount of space used for old restore points is used, the old ones are automatically removed.



#15 OFFLINE Pat-2

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 10:21 AM

This is a feature of Windows, not a bug in Defraggler. Volume Shadow Copy creates new restore points whilst the defrag is happening. When the amount of space used for old restore points is used, the old ones are automatically removed.

Hello,

The old ones, maybe, but the last one ( created prior the defrag process ) should still be there !
Once again, it was just gone ( with the rest on them ) ! Which means no restore possible, if a rebbot is launched and it failed ...

So, the best thing to do might be to create a restore point right after the defrag process is completed.

Your advice, please.

Pat-2

#16 OFFLINE Augeas

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 12:06 PM

My modest advice is the same as in any problem, Google it and see what others have experienced. For instance;

'JKDefrag does not remove Restore Points, Windows does. As the disk fills up, like when defragmenting/moving a very large file (it is first copied to the new location and then remoed from the old), Windows frees up some space occupied by the Restore Points. If the free space on the drive falls below 200MB, System Restore is suspended, effectively removing ALL remaining Restore Points.'

and

'I have just had to reformat and re-install Vista Home Premium defragmenting the drive removes all restore points anyone know how to fix this. I also tried Diskeeper same result.'

and from Microsoft itself;

'When you run Disk Defragmenter on a volume with shadow copies activated, all or some of your shadow copies may be lost, starting with the oldest shadow copies.'

and

'The System Shadow Copy provider uses a copy-on-write mechanism that operates at a 16-KB block level. This is independent of the file system's cluster allocation unit size. If the file system's cluster size is smaller than 16 KB, the System Shadow Copy provider cannot easily determine that disk defragmentation I/O is different from typical write I/O, and performs a copy-on-write operation. This might cause the Shadow Copy storage area to grow very quickly. If the storage area reaches its user-defined limit, the oldest shadow copies are deleted first.'

and....

'If the file system's cluster size is 16 KB or larger, the provider can recognize disk defragmentation I/O and handle it correctly. Microsoft recommends that you use a 16-KB or larger cluster allocation unit size when you format the volume if you plan to defragment volumes that are used for shadow copies of shared folders.'

I don't know the specifics of your pc but this is something to get you started.

#17 OFFLINE Pat-2

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 12:35 PM

Hi,

I'm back on the track.
Even considering your aspect, we have to keep in mind that nothing has fundamentally changed as far as the hard or soft configuration on that box, between the upgrade of the "good" version of the program and these ones.
So, I did remove "totally" Defraggler, and reinstalled an older version of it; strangely the problem didn't show up again !
What is your opinion ?

Pat-2

Dec 16, 2010

Hello out there :

Is that subject running out of interest ?

Pat-2

#18 OFFLINE Kuba

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 10:56 AM

Even considering your aspect, we have to keep in mind that nothing has fundamentally changed as far as the hard or soft configuration on that box, between the upgrade of the "good" version of the program and these ones.
So, I did remove "totally" Defraggler, and reinstalled an older version of it; strangely the problem didn't show up again !
What is your opinion ?

The reason is probably pretty trivial: older Defraggler just by chance happens to modify the drive in such a way that the Shadow Volume subsystem doesn't use up too much space for the system restore point. It's a sheer coincidence. Newer Defraggler does the modifications in such a way that Windows uses up significantly more room for the restore points, and removes the old ones much quicker. What you're experiencing is a designed-in "feature" of Windows with unintended consequences. There is nothing, zero, NADA, that can be "fixed" on Defraggler's side. If you don't like it, you can completely disable system restore for potentially significant gain in defragmentation speed, and use a third party backup solution instead. I mean, you do backup your system to physically separate storage on a fixed schedule, right? Right? If not, your problems are bigger than lack of System Restore!

A way to work around is to maximize the amount of space that can be taken by System Restore. This only has a chance of helping you if you have plenty of room on your hard drive (say 50%+).

#19 OFFLINE Pat-2

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 11:53 AM

The reason is probably pretty trivial: older Defraggler just by chance happens to modify the drive in such a way that the Shadow Volume subsystem doesn't use up too much space for the system restore point. It's a sheer coincidence. Newer Defraggler does the modifications in such a way that Windows uses up significantly more room for the restore points, and removes the old ones much quicker. What you're experiencing is a designed-in "feature" of Windows with unintended consequences. There is nothing, zero, NADA, that can be "fixed" on Defraggler's side. If you don't like it, you can completely disable system restore for potentially significant gain in defragmentation speed, and use a third party backup solution instead. I mean, you do backup your system to physically separate storage on a fixed schedule, right? Right? If not, your problems are bigger than lack of System Restore!

A way to work around is to maximize the amount of space that can be taken by System Restore. This only has a chance of helping you if you have plenty of room on your hard drive (say 50%+).


Hi,

Sorry for answering late, I was goofing around for awhile.
I guess I will have to live with it for the time being.
So we can consider the case as closed.
Take care.

Pat

#20 OFFLINE Doobs

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 03:32 PM

Hi,

Sorry for answering late, I was goofing around for awhile.
I guess I will have to live with it for the time being.
So we can consider the case as closed.
Take care.

Pat

I have found if you do not move large file to end of drive during whole drive defrag restore points are intact.

Terry