17 replies to this topic

[Alan_B]

Ten times in Sixty the P.C. failed to shutdown.

It was successful for 50 out of the first 50 attempts, and cleansed in Auto mode and shutdown the P.C.

Then the next 10 attempts failed to shutdown (but I believe they cleansed O.K.)
After the first three "I don't believe it" situations I launched Windows Task manager and found All applications closed, and twenty processes running.

Normally when all applications are closed there are about 27 processes running, so about seven processes had been killed, another twenty to go.

Observing the Processes Tab I again launched "CCleaner /Auto /Shutdown",
and saw that CCleaner.exe briefly appeared as a running process.
I launched Task Manager again and everything repeated the same.
All (or most of) the Desktop icons appeared to remain unflinching during these failed attempts to Auto Shutdown.

I eventually tired of this repeatable failure, so I used Windows -> "Turn off Computer", which worked first time, and I went to bed.
I regret due to panic I only counted how many processes were running, I did record which they were, so I cannot identify the seven that were missing.

Since then I have had zero failures in ten attempts at "CCleaner /Auto /Shutdown".

MY QUESTIONS :-
1.
Is it probable that the first failed Shutdown killed seven processes, but left everything else running, and
the remaining twenty processes were enough to launch CCleaner,
but the absence of seven caused CCleaner to crash whilst cleansing before it proceeded to launching Shutdown.
2.
I have a special "Shutdown" script which concludes with "START CCLEANER /AUTO /SHUTDOWN",
I envisage replacing with "CCLEANER /AUTO" followed by a DOS CMD invoked Powerdown command;
Please advise me of a suitable command that will ensure a Powerdown - not a mere user log-off.
3.
Does "CCLEANER /AUTO /SHUTDOWN" conclude by launching the same actions as are launched by Windows -> "Turn off Computer".

For 2 years I always closed down with Windows -> "Turn off Computer" - I guess it only failed twice in 1000 attempts,
and when it failed it was a Windows "Belly Up - Dead" situation - dead screen, dead keys, dead mouse;
and all I could do was hold down the Power button for 5 seconds to shut off my Laptop.
In 1000 attempts I never ever had a failure that left the desktop alive and well but unable to shutdown.

Windows -> "Turn off Computer" has a 0.2 % failure rate when the O.S. freezes
"CCleaner /SHUTDOWN" has a 2.0% failure rate with the O.S. quite responsive, but 7 processes down and unwilling to close.
This makes me suspect that there are different actions used by these two methods of shutdown.

I have a residual concern that on rare occasions Firefox may still be running upon shutdown,
and whilst I think it likely that Addons such as LastPass and Xmarks,
and on-line-browser services such as Gmail and Google documents,
will be designed to tolerate Firefox closing just when a "cloud" transfer had started,
either by the computer being powered down or the telephone wire to the I.S.P breaking,
I fear that they may not have anticipated that CCleaner could do a shutdown.
I do not mind if I have just altered something on/in Firefox, and the consequences have yet to be updated to remote databases,
but I would hate to lose all my passwords or bookmarks or emails because of a "different" close down action that was not anticipated.
After 20 years programming in "C" I expect horrendous consequences when anything deviates from "standard".

I am using :-
CCleaner v2.20.920, and suspect this problem could apply to all versions;
XP Home SP3; ESET NOD32 Antivirus; and Comodo 3.5 Firewall.

Incidentally - completely unrelated to the above bug, but possibly in the same area of code :-
If Firefox.exe is present as an application or a process when CCleaner /Auto /Shutdown is launched,
it would be nice if it (Firefox) could be closed before cleansing so that its cache could be purged

Regards
Alan

[Andavari]

Alan_B, on Jul 31 2009, 03:55 PM, said:

2.
I have a special "Shutdown" script which concludes with "START CCLEANER /AUTO /SHUTDOWN",
I envisage replacing with "CCLEANER /AUTO" followed by a DOS CMD invoked Powerdown command;
Please advise me of a suitable command that will ensure a Powerdown - not a mere user log-off.

Possibly some resident software running that just doesn't like the plug pulled on it, or possibly the /SHUTDOWN works just a tad bit too fast, don't know really.

The Windows shutdown "CMD" you mention would be:
shutdown -s -t 10 -c "Shutdown PC"

Replace -t 10 with any amount of time you want in seconds, and for full usage capabilities run this via a command prompt:
shutdown /?

A full clean, and then shutdown batch script could be this:
"C:\Program Files\CCleaner\CCleaner.exe" /AUTO
shutdown -s -t 10 -c "Shutdown PC"

[Alan_B]

Thanks Andavari, I will try that.

Regards
Alan

[DennisD]

I wonder if "uphclean" would help with this.

User Profile Hive Cleanup Service:

Since first running this service a "hung" shutdown is a very rare occurrence now, and I use CCleaner Auto Shutdown constantly.

EDIT: Supported Operating Systems: Windows 2000; Windows Server 2003; Windows XP

[Andavari]

Good thinking Dennis! If he's using XP without the User Profile Hive Cleanup Service that could very well be the root of the issue, that little service cures so many XP shutdown issues.

[Alan_B]

Thanks

Does "uphclean" delete bad entries in the registry, leaving more spaces for NTREGOPT to remove ?

I have put that on the top of my "To Do List" for the near future.

But yesterday I suffered great anxiety with the Internet switched off whilst I uninstalled my old anti-virus and firewall protection (separate vendors) with no certainty that I had anticipated and downloaded all the information I would need to cleanly sufficiently eliminate to avoid problems with a clean installation of composite protection by Comodo.
I feared I would never see the Internet again ! !
Plan B involved a bus ride to the local library with a flash drive to download additional help.
Fortunately this time I had Revouninstaller, and it went much better than I feared.
Two years ago I tried to upgrade the Firewall, and had to uninstall the old version first,
it took a few weeks because a registry key with 2000 branches had a permissions issue,
and Regedit was no help at all - I had to download Registrar Registry Manger before I won.

I am now on a one week "shakedown cruise" with my new protection before I get adventurous again ! !

The only shutdown problems that often occur for a few weeks, and then disappear for a while,
are when ctfmon has hung and shutdown pauses and gives me the chance to kill ctfmon.
I keep on killing the brute - it seems to have several different methods of starting up.
I have been thinking the next time it annoys me I will try to delete it - I have never had any benefit from it.
Would "uphclean" cure this problem also ?

Would "uphclean" prevent a "warning" of a problem that is shown twice in the last 6 months in the event log.
I was never aware of any problem at the time - only when I inspected the log to see how unhealthy it was.

This is the last such warning. It occurred before I began to use CCLEANER /AUTO /SHUTDOWN :-

Event Type: Warning
Event Source: Userenv
Event Category: None
Event ID: 1517
Date: 11/07/2009
Time: 14:23:17
User: NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM
Computer: ACER-311VPBCEH0
Description:
Windows saved user ACER-311VPBCEH0\Alan registry while an application or service was still using the registry during log off. The memory used by the user's registry has not been freed. The registry will be unloaded when it is no longer in use.
This is often caused by services running as a user account, try configuring the services to run in either the LocalService or NetworkService account.

Regards
Alan

[DennisD]

User Profile Hive Cleanup:

Quote

The User Profile Hive Cleanup service helps to ensure user sessions are completely terminated when a user logs off. System processes and applications occasionally maintain connections to registry keys in the user profile after a user logs off. In those cases the user session is prevented from completely ending. This can result in problems when using Roaming User Profiles in a server environment or when using locked profiles as implemented through the Shared Computer Toolkit for Windows XP.

That's just taken from the link to the microsoft download page above. I don't think it's deleting registry keys, more like prising open reluctant process fingers still hanging on to the registry.

Ctfmon is a process which caused problems for me before I disabled it. You can do that in "Regional And Language Options" by checking the box shown here.



I also have it's startup entry disabled in "CCleaner\Startup".

If the warnings you refer to in Event Viewer were registry related, then uphclean should prevent the event happening in the first place.

The only way to find out Alan is to install it and then see what happens, but I do know it has stopped hung shutdowns for a lot of members.

[Andavari]

CTFMON is one super bastard program, plain and simple. You can disable it manually, or automatically with CTFMON Remover. Or disable it with xp-Anti-Spy.

Here's also an old winapp2 entry for CCleaner to remove it from startup:

[*ctfmon.exe]
; Removes this Microsoft Office installed file from starting with Windows.
; This file may cause very severe system slow downs.
; Tip: This file is better dealt with using the free xp-AntiSpy (http://www.xp-antispy.org).
LangSecRef=3025
DetectFile=%windir%\system32\ctfmon.exe
Default=True
RegKey1=HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run|ctfmon.exe
RegKey2=HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run|ctfmon.exe
RegKey3=HKU\.DEFAULT\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run|ctfmon.exe

[Alan_B]

Dennis

Thank you.

Last year I searched for a fix and got bogged down in all the technical prose.
I gave up and took the easy way out with "CCleaner\Startup".
That worked for a few days, but after it was running again, I found that CCleaner still had greyed out my entry
"No HKCU:Run ctfmon C:\WINDOWS\system32\ctfmon.exe"
but above that in BOLD was
"Yes HKCU:Run ctfmon.exe C:\WINDOWS\system32\ctfmon.exe"

Thank you for the picture. If only I had seen it last year, so much easier than convoluted instructions upon navigating the Control Panel.
And it works ! ! !

That fix removed the entry
"Yes HKCU:Run ctfmon.exe C:\WINDOWS\system32\ctfmon.exe"
and also the ctfmon.exe process was instantly killed.

Sorry, I have a supplementary question about the parent window to the left,
i.e. Regional and Language Options".
In your picture "Supplemental Language support" has two empty check boxes.
On my system there was a check against "Install files for complex script and ..."
I unchecked and clicked apply.
The end results were :-
"Windows setup could not properly install the information for Supplemental Language Support"; and also
Removal of 115 files holding 7 MBytes;
A few hundred Windows File Protection reports in the System event log.
A large addition to the "C:\System Volume Information\" Restore Points.
I retried and almost no further files removed, but again "could not properly install",
plus monster lists of Windows File Protection etc.,
I used Safe Mode and logged in as Alan, with no further success (but also no Windows File Protection this time).
I used safe mode and logged in as Administrator, and tried again - no difference excepting I noticed in Text Services / Settings :-
An American keyboard as an option to the English, and also these buttons were no longer greyed out :-
Remove; Properties; Language Bar; Key Settings.
I did not know what to do, so I left alone.

Reboot as normal and tried again.
No significant change excepting there were only 5 off W.F.P. reports. So my Safe Mode efforts paid off

I wish Windows setup would remember I needed it to properly UN-install the information,
but at least I have purged 7 MBytes and 115 files from Windows Fonts.

Any simple suggestions to fix this would be appreciated.


Andavari

Thank you very much for the Winapp2.ini script.
I very recently downloaded the "official" script,
was disappointed by the extra 3 seconds that CCleaner took to start,
and found I could prune 95% of the script with no reduction upon all the additional applications to clean,
and that cut the 3 seconds delay down to 1 second.
I have added a small section of my own, and will feel comfortable adding your [*ctfmon.exe] portion.

Regards and thanks
Alan

[DennisD]

I dunno why that box is checked in your XP Alan, when by default mine has always been clear.

What you experienced was the normal outcome of unchecking that box, because the removal system is apparently broken in XP.

I've found a couple of links that explain things more clearly than I can, and I'll keep looking for something more positive.

http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2007...14/3288145.aspx

http://blogs.msdn.co.../15/467010.aspx

The second link is the page linked to in the first link.

Hope that helps, but I'm doubtful. Maybe one of the other guys may have experienced this difficult to remove "Supplemental Language Support".

If I find anything else Alan, I'll post it.

[hazelnut]

I can confirm about the 'east asian languages' being impossible to remove in xp.

The uninstaller is broken by default


I looked into this a while ago for myself as mine was ticked when I got the computer.

[Alan_B]

Dennis and Hazelnut

Thank you both, I will will now try to forget that I am stuck with a few bits of junk I do not need.

I am thankful I do not know about all the other redundant stuff that is surplus to requirements,
otherwise it would be harder to sleep at night ! !.

My daughter bought this P.C. for herself from Dixons about 5 years ago.
It came with XP and SP1 pre-installed, and no Windows Installation discs.
It was a pre-packaged bundle that included an H.P All in One printer / copier.
I guess English is not the "First Language" for all Dixon's customers, so Dixons give everybody everything ! !

Two years later I reached retirement, so my daughter retired from being administrator and sole user,
and I became I.T. manager (unsalaried).
This P.C. has had an awful lot of experience - a lot of awful experience ! !

I will let this one rest now,

Thanks
Alan

[DennisD]

Alan_B, on Aug 4 2009, 08:22 AM, said:

Dennis and Hazelnut

Thank you both, I will will now try to forget that I am stuck with a few bits of junk I do not need.

I am thankful I do not know about all the other redundant stuff that is surplus to requirements,
otherwise it would be harder to sleep at night ! !.

If there was a program called "Show Me The Junk", I think we would all get a pretty nasty wake up call to just how much detritus was laying around in hard to reach corners of the hard drive.

In this case you've gotten rid of a portion of what I still have laying there. And it'll stay laying there now.

[hazelnut]

Alan I will forgive people most things .... just please don't ever mention HP printer software

[Alan_B]

hazelnut, on Aug 4 2009, 07:12 PM, said:

Alan I will forgive people most things .... just please don't ever mention HP printer software

Hazelnut

Ten days ago I needed to make a copy of a legal document received by snail mail.
I impatiently waited till yesterday for my shopping trip to Tesco and paid 10 p for a xerox copy.

I wanted to scan the image into my P.C. for the facility to convert the image to a searchable text file,
but that might have prompted H.P. to demand its installation C.D. to re-install the scanner software.

As Meatloaf puts it so well
"I will do anything - but I won't do THAT."

Regards
Alan

[Andavari]

HP's printer software isn't that bad (that was a joke). I don't let it run on startup with Windows.

I only use their software on demand to check the ink levels then immediately close it down, even though that feature is built into the AIO LCD screen.

The next time I redo my system I'm going to see if I can only install the drivers only without all the other hideous bloat, and I swear they must be wasting ink with all the so called maintenance processing which happens far too often when I want to print but instead have to wait a minute or two for it to finish.

[DennisD]

Trying to update an HP driver was the cause of the only BSOD I've ever had.

And now sods law is probably gonna jump up and bite me on the backside and give me another.

[Alan_B]

I recently moved nearly half of C:\ to a separate partition so Acronis takes half the time to create an archive image that is half the size.
I have relocated useful things that never change and almost never are needed, like C:\I386.

Acronis and Perfect disc know the stuff is no longer on C:\.
Everything else seems to be fooled by my use of "Reparse Points" that redirect to the new location.

I vigorously tested, used, and abused Reparse Points before I risked anything I might regret.
C:\Program Files\Hewlett-Packard = 186 MB was very useful for the initial trials of Reparse Points.
Who saw that coming ! !

Regardfs
Alan